ICOC Breaking Session: Audio w/Transcript

From Zzzeta (Ian) on NYCOC. Transcript available - click on the title above.

I've just made soundfiles available online, which feature Al Baird and his cronies in the act of conducting a vicious breaking session against Dusty Wakefield, a former member.

To download the files, you need to install the Ares filesharing software from http://www.sofotex.com/Ares-download_L5779.html - it's not illegal to own this software or to download files with the owner's permission.

When you have the Ares client running, conduct a search for Audio files entitled "Dusty Wakefield"; there are three of them in all.

Don't try this if you only have a 56K dialup connection.

Ian.

Lisa Johnson's Comments on the Abuses

She says she thought incidents of abuse were "isolated." Very similar to what the ICOC automatons say now.

Compare Lisa Johnson's quotes from 1990 vs. right after the HK letter (1990 taken from the rightcyberup website)

"Now this – I mean this sisters. I mean this, this is from the bottom of my heart. This is what I came to say today, to you. I believe that you have quit believing that grace will motivate people. You, personally. Take it personally. Take it individually. I believe that is one of the major problems in our movement, today. We must see it. I’ve seen the dangers, the abuses, the results of it, it is horrendous, it is sickening, it is frightening. We have got to trust that grace motivates people. We don’t need the things that we use to motivate people....

“I’m at the point where I feel like we just need to shut up and read the Bible. That it’s getting dangerous some of the things we tell each other, some of the things that we’ve done. I’m upset and I’m scared about it. I think that we have got to make a decision to repent. You know, the abuses are amazing – we begin to crystallize things – we’ve talked about it before, but sisters it’s time to change it.”

Lisa Johnson (World Sector Leader – Women), Crashing Through The Quitting Places: Discipleship, Women’s Retreat, Boston, audio tape, 1990. (about audio clips)

Now 13 years in the 2003 letter she claims she didn't know it was happening in NY (taken from her apology letter which can be found on the web).

"I'm sorry for believing (chokes) the New York church was different, that we only had isolated incidences of pain and hurt and abuse. I even thought that I was different..."

Both Lisa's and Steve's letters are here: http://www.newcovpub.com/icc/johnson_apology.htm

One could say that the first quote was in Boston and not NY (her own church) but I don't recall hearing much from her between 1990 to present about the church wide abuse issues. Did anyone else? She did see it back in 1990.

http://forums.delphiforums.com/ICCDiscussion/messages?msg=12829.1

An Insider's Open Letter to Steve Johnson - Ken Carlstedt
Read on. From ICC DF. Ken Carlstedt and his wife Jeri assisted the Johnsons for many years in the NYC church, and have seen more of the Johnsons' lifestyle than most people. Thus his words hold much weight not just in terms of its moral indignation but his personal knowledge of SJ's life.

Also referenced are SJ's deceitful comments about himself as a "poor preacher," not only to the church but also to a City Beat reporter. Full text article is included.

After two decades of amassing a fortune while leading the New York Church of Christ, Steve Johnson is technically now a millionaire-- since the equity on his house alone is just shy of a million.

With the on-line heat coming down hard on Steve, he's about to hurriedly skip town with his loot to lead and direct the finances of an unsuspecting church in Savannah, Georgia.

In this atmosphere, insider Ken Carlstedt posted a powerful letter on one of the many threads discussing Steve's shady dealings and luxurious lifestyle.

The thread is called

Steve Johnson: 'My house is kinda junky.'

Ken Carlstedt was responding to an old newspaper article I dug out and posted. In this article, Steve Johnson slickly and deceptively claimed to be living a modest lifestyle, with no misappropriation of funds, etc.

Ken's letter was/is so powerful and credible in the way it calls Steve on his b.s.---i.e. the letter's damaging truth comes from a high-up insider/confidante of Steve Johnson's, not an oustide observer like myself.

As such, Ken's letter deserves a thread of its own. Here goes:

-------------------AN OPEN LETTER FROM KEN CARLSTEDT----------------
---------------------------TO STEVE JOHNSON-----------------------

Dear Steve J.,

This message is directly to you, not really a response to the poster.

Steve, do you understand the deception you practiced? If so, you have never confessed openly, so I will help you see it, again.

Let's keep it simple. 'When the impression you work hard to give is intended to cover up reality, that is called deception.'

Steve, you remember that you intentionally planted too many trees and shrubs in front of your house, and let things get overgrown, even with Buzz around who is an excellent gardener and had indeed done miraculous gardening at his house.

You did this specifically to make it look like a normal little house, or even a bit quirky and less than normal, that certainly wouldn't look like anything 'special' or 'lavish' from the front. You worked hard to create that impression.

You will remember that one of the things that pleased you about that particular house, back when we all moved to Rockland together in the early and mid-1990's, was that it had an appearance from the front as a modest little house. You and Lisa were glad to find a house that 'looked small from the street' because you believed this would help shield you and your family from the questions that were coming up about the apartment on 98th street, the lavish decorations provided for you mostly free of charge from you know who, the 'intricate' but probably fully legal (since minor shadings of the truth are rarely prosecutable) ways that you and he financed it, etc.

'You dreaded those questions then as you are dreading the questions in the past year. Don't you see the pattern here? What does it mean when someone gets defensive? Remind yourself of your own teachings, and heal thyself.

Steve, you do remember that in close proximity to the time you were on the phone giving the interview referenced in this thread, there were stoneworkers, construction people, cement pourers, fireplace experts, and other kinds of work being done, on the back of the house, out of site from the street. Or, at least, you were well into the planning stages of how to put your investment gains into your house.

You need to be in touch with reality enough to remember that these home improvements cost you in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. Do we need to name names, and quote prices paid, to help you remember?

Steve, why are you willing to give the impression of running and hiding out? Could it be that you ARE running and hiding out again, without admitting this even to yourself?

Steve, please come forward openly and publicly, as you committed personally to me that you would do, about one year ago almost to this day, in my basement, about everything.

At the very least, if you can't bring yourself to come clean about everything, then come clean about these specific issues. Open up publicly about the improvements you made to your home and the money you used to make them. Give all the details, don't hold anything back. You see, when you are a public leader accepting public money as pay (church members are the public in this case), then the public does indeed have a right to know your finances, especially given the clear impression of impropriety.

Do you understand there is a clear impression of impropriety here? You need to, if you don't. It doesn't matter that some of your best friends are telling you to not worry about it. You need to ignore them and do the right thing.

More than that: 'When the impression you are working hard to give is intended to cover up reality, that is called deception.'

You will likely loose your soul if you continue refusing to come clean. Whatever you do or don't do, I will pray that God will be merciful to you, but my hope for you is not strong if you persist. You know the right thing to do and have refused to do it, wreaking havoc around you, exactly and precisely as we discussed a year ago.

Steve, I am not persecuting you. You are simply in need of coming clean. You and I both know it, and so many others who know you well know it. Telling you that truth is the best thing I can do for you.

Summarize it for yourself, it may be easier to see that way. Say it to yourself: 'I was a minister in a rapidly growing, dynamic, financially-surging organization. Lots and lots of perks came my way because of my position in the organization and because of the way I was discipled, and chose to follow, to handle people around me in that position.'

Steve, just come clean about all this, it's so simple. Perhaps most people could still forgive you, although I can speak for no one but myself.

Lots of love,

Ken

________________________________________________________________

Here's a link to Ken's letter in the context of the thread:

http://forums.delphiforums.com/ICCdiscussion/messages/?msg=10358.3

Here's a link to the initial post Ken was responding to:

http://forums.delphiforums.com/ICCdiscussion/messages/?msg=10358.1

Finally, here's a transcript of that initial post:

________________________________________________________________

STEVE JOHNSON: My house is kind of junky.

... or so he put it to a reporter in 2000 while defending his ownership of the house currently being discussed on the forum———the fireplace in-the-bathroom digs now featured in photos being viewed on the forum.

It's from an article I dug out of the TOLC files.

In the same article, Steve Johnson also plays the role of the poor preacher with other comments:

1) Regarding his unimpressive cars———one that he's forced to share with his father-in-law; regarding other car, Steve sheepishly describes it this way:

It will go fast... when it's running.

2) Regarding the home itself: he bought it for only $123,000, and that was with help from my father-in-law;

3) Regarding his salary, he refuses to discuss it. Instead he ducks the question with the glib comeback, If I ever get rich, it won't be because of the church. It'll be because I won the lottery.

4) Regarding the uncomfortable questions being put to him over the phone, Steve jokingly compares himself to Jesus and the reporter to one of Jesus' crucifiers. Steve tell the reporter to hold on to the phone\ while he gets the reporter some more nails to crucify me with.
________________________________________________________________

TALK ABOUT YOUR OWN WORDS COMING BACK TO HAUNT YOU!!!

It's a classic

Here's the link:

http://www.tolc.org/nybeat.htm

Here's an excerpt:

CITY BEAT Reporter: (Steve Johnson) will get serious when talk turns to faith, or to allegations that he and other leaders in the church——— where weekly tithing is required———lead lavish lifestyles.

For several years, Johnson lived in a three-bedroom, 2,200-square foot condo on W. 98th St. that today would probably fetch more than $1 million. But Johnson said he never owned the apartment and moved out several years ago after the owner, a friend, 'went belly up in the real estate market and had to sell.'

Johnson bought a four-bedroom house in West Nyack, Rockland County, for a reported $123,000 with help from his father-in-law, he said. 'It's kind of junky,' said Johnson, an assertion not disproved by photographs. (Those are photos OF THE OUTSIDE, during the FALL OF 2000... DUDE)

Last week, workers could be seen repairing water damage to the two-story home. Outside were parked the three cars registered to Johnson: 1997 Ford Expedition, a 1975 pickup truck that Johnson said he shares with his father-in-law, and a 1989 Ford Mustang that Johnson said 'will go fast, when it's running.'

When asked, Johnson refused to detail his salary. But he did give this assurance: 'If I ever get rich, it won't be because of the church. It'll be because I won the lottery.'

RELEVANT HISTORICAL LINKS:
Leadership Lifestyles

The Famous Fireplace in Steve Johnson's Bathroom
Paid for by us who were suckers in the NYCOC. Paid for by the BENEVOLENCE funds. Click "more pictures" to see YOUR fireplace in the NYC lead evangelist's bathroom. It's selling for almost One Million, by the way... I'd like to get my damn tithe back!!

Steve Johnson's home

Steve Johnson's fireplace in the bathroom

Remember how people packed themselves into nasty small apartments with 10 roommates? So we could pay tithe? THIS is what we paid for. Remember single moms? This is where the money went that they DIDN'T receive.

It is truly Disgusting.

Nothing angers me more than this kind of greed and hypocrisy. EVERYONE should see these pictures.

Apparently SJ put a bunch of money from some shady thing at Software.com (one of the Boston ICOC Board of Directors was a Software.com VP) to pay for renovations for the place. Check out the NYCOC and ICC DF threads on the Software.com issue and the SJ House:

NYCOC: Steve Johnson's home on sale for $1M!

NYCOC: Steve Johnson House -- photos

ICC DF: Is this REALLY Steve Johnson's house?

ICC DF: PHOTOS OF STEVE JOHNSON'S HOUSE

Interesting ICOC Stats site
I added a new link for a web site called Icocstats.org. It's written by a "faithful" ICC member, and interestingly enough leaves out the 2003 stats. Does anyone have numbers for any church in 2003?

Will the Leaders Ever Understand How Cruel They Were?

You reap what you sow. A response to a former WML who wrote about returning to the secular world.

This is one of the most powerful posts I've read: about a leader who writes about her realizations, about returning to a normal working life and learning how "privileged," and Cruel, her life was as an ICOC minister. It was not the sacrifice that she believed it was.

I wonder how many of these leaders now, among those who are scrambling to keep their salaries and benefits, who are crushed with their own self pity over what has "happened," can ever come to a full understanding of the "sins," the injustice, the evil they had ultimately perpetrated.

I really believe these people live the grand delusion. I was talking with a friend who said that Summer McKean had a "nervous breakdown." Some members had accused her of racism (my friend said she believed Summer to be more elitist, than racist). Well, no wonder. The woman had been raised to believe this illusory, insane life was right, was good, was sacrificial. People who have never had a "pre-ICC" life, and fully embraced the church's system - how lost! A person who was cruel, who deserves all the enemies in the world. How dare she have any pity for herself. I sure would not want to be in her shoes. But how can you deny the injustice in her life as well?

It takes a person with incredibly strong character, backbone, and conscience - not in the ICC way but in the truest way - to resist this brainwashing and do what is right. Even more when you are raised in the church. Obviously Summer did not have this. I admire the fact that Olivia had the backbone to eventually leave, though I know it was difficult for her.

I have to say, so many people lose in this situation. The leaders who are still comfortable do not suffer now, but I am certain their reward for their cruelty - the wrath of "God" or whoever it is - is not finished, is coming to them, and I do not feel any pity for them.

http://forums.delphiforums.com/ICCdiscussion/messages?msg=6122.92 "Why Leaders Must Get Out"

The original post:

Letter from long-time annonymous former staff person:

As background in case you don't know me - I was baptized in XXX in
l9XX, moved to XXX on the mission team in XX, worked as a XXXX for XXX, then went into the ministry at XX years old. My husband and I married in XX, and we moved wherever we were asked (more times than I can count), and sold everything to move Overseas for XX years before returning to the U.S. and coming to back to U.S.

We resigned from the ministry after over many years. I felt so much pressure to produce numbers, look a certain way, dress a certain way, have a beautiful home, make the stage at church beautiful, have beautiful people singing on stage, etc. - in short, a lot of emphasis on all the wrong things, but I didn't realize it at the time.

Having been in the ministry for a long time, and now having worked in
secular jobs for over XX years, I feel I have a unique perspective. I had no idea while I was in the ministry how out of touch I was with what "real" or "normal" (for lack of a better word) lives were.

I don't think anyone who has been in the ministry for years, especially if they went into the ministry straight out of college and never worked, can really grasp this until you've experienced it. I cannot emphasize enough to not underestimate how difficult it is to change the way you have thought when you have been in the ministry for years & years.

I hadn't taught in the Sunday school program since l983, although I had counselled (and corrected and rebuked) people on their attitudes about teaching. I had no idea what it was like when Wednesday night classes ran late, and what it was like to try to pick up the pieces of 2 tired children on Thursday morning at 6:45 trying to get them to school.

After only my first week working at the Medical Center as a XX for 12 hour shifts, the realization hit me how demanding I had thought my schedule was when I was on staff - now every day was much more intense than that staff meeting Tuesday as I went to work, tried to cook dinner before I left in the morning, arranged childcare for my children, etc. I was used to always being right, always having my opinion be the right one, telling people what to do all day long, and thinking I always knew better.

After resigning, it was the best thing that ever happened to us to stay where we had led (not go somewhere else, and certainly not to go somewhere else and accept another ministry job! that certainly wouldn't fit the definition of resignation) and learn the MANY lessons that we needed to learn. It was humbling and difficult to be on the other side of the pulpit, but you get a different, and very valuable view from there.

It's hard to explain the mindset that occurs when you have been in the
ministry for a long time. I really thought that being in the ministry was the only thing worth doing, that only the "best" people could do it, and so I looked down on everyone else for not being "sharp" enough to be in the ministry.

I was used to always being right, making judgements about big, little and totally unimportant things and expecting the people around me to do things my way, always having people help me with my responsibilities in life, being able to delegate anything I didn't want to do, having babysitters always readily available, using people to get my goals accomplished and make me look good (although at the time I thought it was sincere and best for them), etc. The pride and arrogance were overwhelming.

It has taken years to understand that no one else in the church has this carte blanche lifestyle. (We could sure use some of those babysitters now!!)

Recently, a couple we are close to came to us asking for a short term loan to be able to buy their child glasses. The husband has a full time job and a masters degree and the wife works part time. It hit me this is how most of the middle class in the United States lives - one thing goes wrong (a broken transmission, needing new glasses, an unexpected medical bill) and you are unable to meet your financial obligations. When you're in the ministry, all of your needs are met: medical insurance (even co-pays), mileage allowances for travel, expense account allowances for housing and entertainment, and so you are shielded from this kind of financial pressure.

So we asked people to be sacrificial, when really we weren't experiencing any real kind of financial sacrifice ourselves, as all of our needs were always met.

Myself, as well as all of the "old-timers" who have been in the ministry for years, have built a crumbling mess. It has not been easy to "fix" me (especially my thinking) and even after 4 years out of the ministry, I'm still not "fixed" because I have been trained in elitism, arrogance, harshness, judgementalism, and pride.

I am extremely concerned about the rushing stampede to hire Sam Laing to come to Athens. It is obvious the many strengths that Sam and Geri have to offer - their marriage, family, counselling ability, etc. But, from my viewpoint after having been in the ministry for over 1/3 of my life, having had 32 years in the ministry is not a plus, but a serious minus.

I have nothing against Sam & Geri Laing, but I have seen the mindset, priviledges, lifestyle and thought process that a leader on his "level" or "tier" in the ICOC system has been steeped in. I also believe many of these mindsets will not even be obvious to Sam for a long time, because we have been thoroughly indoctrinated in that way of thinking.

I believe that Sam is sincere in wanting to repent and that the Triangle church in many ways wasn't as oppressive or controlling as some of the ICOC churches have been, yet it will take time, and many painful conversations, to learn a new way of thinking and dealing with people. Leaving a church after resigning to come somewhere else without staying and learning the lessons there is a red flag to me too. I don't even think it is possible to know what those lessons might even be except with the passing of time.

I haven't seen any evidence of repentance, or even openness, about finances or leaders lifestyles. And although it hasn't been said, I wonder if this rush to hire the Laings has a lot to do with when their severance package expires. I don't want the church to make any huge decisions rashly and without everyone feeling great about the decisions, especially because of money issues.

http://forums.delphiforums.com/ICCdiscussion/messages?msg=6122.1 "Why Leaders Must Get Out"

Confession of a Former ICOC Evangelist

This is a truly amazing testimonial by Gustavo Sassano of the Buenos Aires, Argentina church. He was a full-time ministry leader for almost 13 years (March 1989 to November 2001).

My name is Gustavo Sassano, from Buenos Aires, Argentina. I was a full-time ministry leader in the International Church of Christ (ICOC) for almost 13 years, from March 1989 to November 2001. I am sharing my story because I want to tell people about the destructive practices that I committed and false doctrines that I taught when I was a leader in the church. I want to confess my sins and educate people about the danger of the organization that I believe is a cult. This is my story.
I was converted in 1988 (recruited) when I was 23 years old in Buenos Aires, Argentina. I was studying Law in the university of Buenos Aires. A friend of mine, who was working with me, invited me to a Bible discussion. It took me seven months to get baptized. I was an idealistic person. I wanted to change the world, and I thought I had found that possibility through Jesus. I was innocent at that time. I entered in the ministry only five months after my conversion. I didn’t finish the university because at that time in the ICOC, you had to choose between the university or the ministry. I decided to enter the ministry. I was ignorant. I’m ignorant today too!!! I ate my bible every day. I dreamed a lot about conquering the world for Christ. I didn’t know that I was advancing a cult.

I was a missionary to Chile in 1990. Ten months after the missionary team arrived to Chile, the lead evangelist, Andrew Giambarba had to return to Argentina and I became the leader of the mission in Chile. I was so young and ignorant to occupy that position. I was so stupid, arrogant and prideful. I preached like I was the big thing. How wrong I was. I spent a lot of time shouting, ordering, and criticizing other religions and other christians.

I got married with Claudia in 1990 in Chile. I had to marry her in Chile. Only my mother came to my wedding. That was so bad. I received a lot of letters of my family criticizing my decision to do the wedding in Chile instead of Argentina. It was something radical to do that. It was a common ICOC thing. Being radical and stupid at the same time.

I went to Mexico in 1992 to live there. The "church" in Mexico was growing a lot. At that time if you want to grow “spiritually” (It means growing in the ICOC system) you had to be in the ICOC of Mexico. There I learned the worst teachings and techniques. The lead evangelist was Phil Lamb and after him, Peter Garcia. For example, I learned in Mexico how to make people feel bad about their lives when they didn’t follow the ICOC rules. I learned there how to put pressure into people. The purpose of every staff meeting was to make everybody or someone in particular feel bad (the staff referred to these meetings as "Breaking sessions") It was so common to hear shouting in the staff meeting, making the staff feel bad about their ministry, until some of them cried. Not a joke, that was real.

We started to talk a lot about statistics. Kip McKean, founder of the ICOC and Los Angeles church was applying those statistics and we started to do the same. Statistics about how many people every member brought. I remember very well how bad many in the staff felt about taking so many numbers. The lead evangelist measured all our lives with the statistics. That was the only way to measure a leader. It was so awful. Obviously, we couldn’t complain. Some did and they were treated so badly. We started to get angry every time the statistics were bad. I shouted at my leaders meetings, I shouted to people in my zone of the church and I did everything possible to change and to have better statistics. Everyone around me behaved in the same way. I think that at that time I lost my love for God and the people and I started to look for success in the ministry. Every staff meeting, the lead evangelist made us feel bad about something in our lives, with statistics in his hand.

I learned how to control every person's life. We called it discipleship. Now, for me, it was control. We spread the sins of many rank and file members in our leaders meetings. Nobody had a private life, nobody.

In addition to the breaking sessions, we would have more casual staff meetings. During those more relaxed meetings, the men smoked cigars, drank tequila (a lot) and we talked about the most stupid and offensive things. We always were talking about the sins of people in the church, leaders or rank and file members. Gossip was the first thing in our mouth. Those times were so common. When a goal was achieved, such as meeting a monthly baptism quota, we went to the most expensive restaurant in the city. Man, we ate like lions. We spend too much money. A person in Mexico could live for one month with the money that I spent on my dinner. I feel ashamed about it now, because we used contribution money to pay for these expensive dinners.

The pressure to get the special contribution was so heavy. I received a lot of pressure from above to collect special contribution. Because of this, I put heavy pressure on the disciples who were in my ministry to give money for special contribution. The leaders, including me, made everybody feel guilty if they didn’t come up with the money to give.

The time I spent in Mexico was the worst in terms of learning the worst of the ICOC “ministry”: pressure, guilt, a lot of statistics, shouting, ordering and so on. The worst thing was the breaking session. If a member, or leader, or staff member was not “doing well spiritually”, we met with him/her. I said we, because we were 3 to 5 against the weak member or leader. We told him/her a lot of things, shouted if necessary, humiliated him, sometimes in front of his wife/her husband, until the person was broken (meaning that they cried and agreed to do whatever the breakers thought that person should do).They did that with me several times. I did that many, many times. We learned from the example of our lead evangelist and his wife, how to break someone. We did the same every time we could. They did that to me every time they could. People cried in their breaking sessions. My wife and I cried many times.

When I returned to Argentina in 1994, I brought all the things that I learned in Mexico with me. I started to lead the ICOC in Argentina. I applied the techniques and teachings I learned to my ministry in Buenos Aires. It was a nightmare!! I think that now. At that time, I felt good about what I was doing. My “ministry” began to grow, and I felt pride. How shameful!! But after a while, people began to get tired. The ICOC schedule was killing people. Every week, we had three church meetings (bible talk, midweek and Sunday service) one discipleship time (an encounter between a member and his assigned “teacher in the faith”), plus daily evangelism and every day contact with someone, like phone calls to others members, to report our evangelism, people to bring to church on Sunday, plus a lot of studies with non-members. Our week was full of activities. Someone could hardly ever visit his family.

One time we told people to put Mondays aside to get together with their families. What a stupid command! Only one day for the family! I was living only 10 minutes from my parents and I visited them only once in a regular week. I feel so bad. My family suffered a lot. One time, while I was single, my mom got mad about my schedule in the church. A doctor had to come to our house to calm her down. It was an extreme experience. I will never forget that day. And I used that experience to tell everybody that our family will persecute us for being “Christians”. But my mother was not persecuting me. She was just so upset about the way the church schedule was hurting my relationship with my family. Today I strongly believe that the ICOC destroys family relationships. Members take a lot of distance of their parents and become very judgmental about their lives. I’m so sorry about how deeply I hurt my parents during my time in the ICOC.

With so many activities, many people began to complain. I accused them of not being committed enough. I shouted at them. I tried to kick them out of the church because they were not committed enough. We used to do that a lot. It was a common practice, to throw people out from church because they were “rebels” against the system or not “fruitful”, meaning they did not bring new people to church. I have talked with many ex-members and members about these episodes. They feel bad about those times. Imagine if you had to sit down with a leader in a room, and he started to ask you a lot of questions about your life. After that, if he found that you weren’t a good disciple, he could throw you out of church or give you some time to prove that you were a good disciple. Awful! Many people were thrown away. I hear that before I returned to Argentina, the staff threw away a lot of members.

I committed a lot of sins against God and the people in the church with my anger and pride and pressure. I am so ashamed right now. I caused a lot of damage with my bad temper. One time I shouted to my secretary and I threw away all the things she had in her hands. I fired her for stupid reasons and in a bad, bad way. I’m so sorry about that. I was known for my bad temper and pride. Once I struck a wall in the middle of staff meeting, I almost struck one person there. I saw many of these episodes of shouting, striking things in many places and situations. I did the same.

The ministry in Argentina started to decline. Many people started to leave the church. They had reasons to do that. There were a lot of complaints from the rank and file about my bad leadership. At that time I fought with everyone to protect me. I hurt many.

In March 1999 I went to Brazil with my wife and my two daughters for six months to “recover spiritually”. It was another awful experience. They were doing a lot of statistics, in some meetings up to eleven pages!! Every action was recorded. For example, we had to take note of every daily quiet time that every member had weekly. It was a nightmare. They were losing thousands of members a year and they needed to recruit a lot more to keep growing the cult. And when they achieved goals, we did the same as we did in Mexico: expensive restaurants, a lot of alcohol and “unfit-for-rank-and-file-members-jokes”.

I lost the leadership of the Buenos Aires church in 1999 because of my bad temper and bad statistics. The church in BA was not growing. John Porter, GSL in our world sector, took me out of leadership. He was mad because he had to put one of his leaders in Brazil to lead in Argentina. He said that all was my fault. He talked with me with his angry eyes and voice. In the ICOC, letting leaders go to other places to lead was not a good idea. All church leaders wanted to keep their leaders in their area of influence so as to make sure that these leaders would contribute to their growth. I decided to stay in Buenos Aires because I wanted to show everybody there that I was totally committed to repentance. It was common practice in the ICOC that when a leader was taken away, it was “better for him” and the church that he went to another church to recover. I decided to stay.

John Reus took my place in the leadership in Argentina. But he stayed only six months and then Martin and Carmen Bentley came to lead Argentina in January 2001. At first, I thought that they would be mature leadership for Argentina. But I found Martin to be the most hard and close-minded person I had ever met. I said to myself so many times that year: “I don’t want to be like him. I don’t want to have 30 years in the faith with a mind so closed.”

He was the ICOC system in person. He represented the system in a very common and harmful way: the “stealth” way. Gentle in the outside but a different person inside. He came to Argentina to represent the ICOC. To rescue Argentina from the division. In L.A, they didn't want another division in the ICOC. I found that most leaders in the ICOC were that way, one thing in the outside, but another very different thing in the inside. "Their words drip honey but their hearts are set on war". My wife told me that many times. She was tired of this behaviour in the upper leadership. My wife said "behind the smiling face is a stab you will receive as soon as you turn around".

Martin Bentley started to preach the “Only True Church” doctrine from the very first message. He preached that we were the only people saved in Argentina. He said in many sermons “when God sees Argentina, He only find his sons in this room.” Many people in the church began to leave because of this teaching. Many didn’t believe that we were the only true church anymore. They started to talk about it with other members and to denounce this false doctrine.

The staff started to mark people. They marked one ex staff member, because he didn’t believe in the One True Church doctrine anymore. After that Martin Bentley, the lead evangelist, started to mark a lot of people for the same reason. And many others, members and ex-members, seven or eight in one day, only because they began to criticize the ICOC. The criticism was always about the OTC doctrine, the contribution and the lifestyle of the staff. The other leaders started to think that I was a traitor to the ICOC cause because I began to tell the staff that we had to stop markings. One time I had an encounter with an ex-member that the staff marked. She talked with me about the ICOC being a cult. I mentioned to the staff and they didn’t like that I had that conversation with her. They considered her and many ex-members enemies.

I began to read a lot of books from other Christians and preachers with an open mind, such as Lucado, Hybels, Yancey, Palau, and many others. They opened my eyes. I learned about grace, love, tolerance. I started to believe in my heart that they were my brothers. I realized that we in the church were like the Pharisees in the Bible. We were leaders without grace, leaders with hard hearts, without love in our hearts. In spite of what I was learning, I was still following the ICOC rules. I had faith that the ICOC could change. When I talked with the leadership about the mistakes and sins of the ICOC, they always told me the same: “Things will change. Just wait.” I believed that. I wanted that. That is the main reason why I didn’t leave the ICOC before. But in my heart, I was a coward. I wanted to innovate and change, but not to lose my job. I knew that they didn't want to listen to me.

Around this time, I began to listen to a lot of the critics on the internet. I criticized them a lot. I sent horrible emails to them and to ex-members. But in my heart, my doubts started to grow. I’m so thankful to Reveal, to the ICC Discussion forum, and to many other websites, because they made me think. I didn’t want to. It was like a war between my horrible pride and the truth. I didn’t want to believe that it all was a big, big mistake. My life was a mistake. I threw away 15 years of my life in a big lie. It wasn’t easy to swallow. I know about my good intentions to seek and to serve God, but these are not excuses to make so many mistakes and sins.

I began to listen to some friends who had left the ICOC. They told me that the ICOC was a cult. I began to read a lot about it. I couldn’t believe that the ICOC was a cult, but I had so many proofs about it. I read a lot, I thought a lot. I fought with myself and with old friends. They told me the truth about the ICOC. I’m thankful to all of them for their patience and love. Some of them were patient and some of them didn’t want to talk with me anymore. I understand them now. I have hurt them a lot. I deserve their silence and distance. I was a bad, bad person.

I began to see things in the ICOC from another point of view. I was sitting there listening to other leaders preach the same every time. What boring sermons!! I started to understand why people were feeling bad about themselves. The messages were always about something that we didn’t do well or something that we need to do, like evangelism (I don’t consider it evangelism now. It is recruiting).

I started to hate statistics. We had a lot of statistics! We collected statistics regarding visitors for Sunday services, visitors for bible talks, possible visitors for Sunday service, people studying the Bible, quiet times, discipleship times, contribution, and daily evangelism sometimes. It was a lot of information to ask every member. I realized that statistics made people feel bad. WE WERE SUPPOSED TO BE A CHURCH NOT A COMPANY. But I began to think that the ICOC wasn’t a church. It was a company. One time, a friend of mine who came to my home saw the ICOC statistics and he gave me a hard speech about the wrong of statistics in the ICOC and the useless and damaging way that we had to ask and read the statistics. He told me that we were a company instead of a church. And worst than a company, because he told me that no one in a company asks for statistics in that way and never weekly statistics because no one can evaluate something in such short time. One of my friends in the ICOC who left the cult, told me the same thing. He hated the statistics and he saw the damage that we were doing to people. I didn’t listen to him. I have big regrets about that. I apologized to him for this and many things that I committed against him.

I began to hate the special contribution too. It was a lot of pressure and now I was feeling that pressure.

I began to listen to all leaders in the ICOC, in a different way, and I began to understand a lot all the false doctrines and teachings. The KNN and the DPI books made me realize that the ICOC was wrong on a lot of topics. They were writing so many lies and stupid and non-biblical things. Rules, and more rules. Always making people feel guilty. Pride and more pride about our achievements and the McKean family's achievements. The McKeans were the Super family. It was so disgusting. I couldn’t it believe anymore. One time my lead evangelist, married to Elena McKean's sister, told me about Kip: “He never listens to anybody. It is always his way only.” I knew that this guy, Kip, wasn´t who all leaders were talking about. I started to read again Revolution Through Restoration 1 and 2, and the preachings in my church, and I began to discover the truth and the mistakes.

This a list of things that I began to not believe anymore at that time and why.

• We were the only true church on Earth. I couldn’t believe this anymore. I began to doubt that we were a church and I started to think that we were a cult. This kind of teaching was so common in cults.
• We were the only people saved on Earth. No way! I started to see other Christians like my brothers in Christ. I have no right to condemn other people. I got tired to send people to hell because they were not members of the ICOC. I have many regrets in this area. Many left the ICOC thinking that they were going to hell. They suffered a lot because of that. We called them fall-aways. I’m so sorry about that. I have talked with some of them, they told me that they felt so bad at that time and it took time to recover.
• If someone is not discipled by other disciple, (hierarchical system) you were not a Christian and you were not saved. The discipleship one over one caused a lot of damage in the ICOC members. Many became people who never thought for themselves anymore. This is one my bigger regrets, because I know many that have stopped thinking for themselves. The damage in this area is bigger than most of icoc members and ex-members, including me, can measure. We told people what to do, when to do it and how to do it. We controlled every area of their lives. We asked married people when the last time they had sex was and we were asking these kind of questions all the time to married people. We decided who would marry whom and when. That was disgusting. A lot of rules in dating. People were discouraged to date who they really wanted. We, in the staff, talked a lot about who should marry whom. We arranged many dates. We would prevent a member with leadership potential to date with another member, because he/she was not good for the leadership.
• Disciple=Christian=Saved. That was a big lie. We had to baptize only people who went though all the ICOC studies. That was the conclusion Kip taught every time that I listened to him in every meeting or conference. For me it was something like Pharisee=ICOC member=Saved.
• Kingdom of God = The church. I didn’t believe that anymore. The ICOC taught this false idea to use Matthew 6:33 to push people to put first the ICOC.
• Special contribution was taught every time in every meeting. It was all about money. People in my church were tired of giving and giving 15 or 16 times their weekly contribution every year.
• If you have not baptized someone personally in the last year, then you are a bad leader or you are a lost member. I began to realize that John 15, a scripture that the ICOC used to teach that we have to be fruitful by bringing people to church, was applied in a wrong way. In John 15, Jesus was talking about the fruits of the Spirit, love, joy, patience, etc.
• Church autonomy. I did not agree with following the Los Angeles Church, the “Super Church” that all of us in the ICOC had to follow and obey. I didn’t want to obey Kip McKean or any leader outside my church. I didn’t want to follow the church in Brazil, our church above us in Argentina. That was subversive thinking in the ICOC.
• Bringing visitors every week to church meetings. We weren’t saving people. We were recruiting people. We invited them to a service. It was not common to talk about Jesus. All was about “the wonderful” ICOC. The studies tried to conform people to the ICOC not to Jesus.
• Not miss any church meeting. But we have a lot of meetings! I saw that it wasn’t right to ask to people to follow the ICOC schedule. It was made for people in the ministry, not for rank and file members with a jobs and family.
• Lifestyle of the leadership. All of us leaders were earning a lot of money and all of us were living in nice houses or apartments. We were paid Health Insurance. We ate in restaurants (expensive ones sometimes) with other people and we got reimbursement, the same with gas. We went to conferences and we stayed at the best rooms in the nicest hotels. In those conferences we went to eat every day in a different fancy restaurant. I was earning $US 3400 a month in Argentina, plus Health Insurance, about $US 300. I know that my leaders above were making $US $7000 to $10,000 a month plus many reimbursements.
• The lack of preparation in the lives of the people in the staff. The staff in the ICOC was not prepared to lead churches. I started to lead a church with two years in the faith, without any professional training and with a marriage of only two months. It was stupid to put me in the leadership. It was a nightmare to me and to the people in the church. Many churches in Latin America are being led right now by young leaders without any knowledge about the ministry. They are right now leading churches, giving sermons, without preparation. They will destroy people’s lives. The ICOC is making the same mistakes all over again. They will never learn. We, the staff, were giving a lot of advice to people in every area, but without any real knowledge. All of it was our ideas. I gave a lot of stupid advice. I discipled marriages older than mine, I gave advice about how to raise kids when I didn’t have any! I couldn’t support anymore my lack of preparation. And I looked around in the leadership and I couldn’t find anyone with real and deep preparation. WSL and GSL alike didn’t have any preparation. Their teachings were so empty. Everything in the ICOC was improvisation. We played with people’s lives. Most of the leaders know how to run the ICOC system, but they don’t know anything about REAL ministry. I listened to hundred boring sermons, empty messages.
• The control of outside information. Typical cultic practice. We couldn’t read any criticism or talk with critics. We called any criticism in the internet "spiritual pornography." I learned that this technique was so common in cults. I decided that I will read all that I found against the ICOC. When we marked people from the pulpit for being critics, we couldn’t talk with them. Many families were destroyed by this. In Buenos Aires, the Henry Kriete letter was not allowed to be read. The lead evangelist in Argentina Flavio Uribe, who is making thousands of dollars a month for leading a geographical sector (a leader from Colombia said that He is making $US 10,000 dollars a month. I hope this is not true. Or perhaps, not true anymore), said that he didn’t want to read Henry Kriete's letter. Many in the Argentina church followed him in that idea. He called a meeting for all members in the church in Buenos Aires. He wanted all members to confess their sins. He explained that the problem was not the HK letter and all the false doctrines but the sin in the member’s lives. Many decided not to go to that meeting. They said to me that they didn’t want to be manipulated again. They wanted the truth. More than a hundred have left the church since that time because they wanted to read the letter and make real changes to the church. Now there are 80 or fewer members, when Argentina had almost 300 in 1999.
• Complaints about weight. I listened to many messages and comments about our weight. Kip McKean said one time that we, the staff, were disgusting because many of us were overweight. It was very common that if someone was overweight, the staff didn’t let him to participate in leadership, or singing or serving. It was pure discrimination.

In the middle of 2001, when I started to realize all the false teachings and bad practices of the church, I began to have a lot of trouble sleeping. I was awake until 4 or 5 in the morning. I had no peace in my life and I knew that I had betrayed my best friends in the ICOC (I will explain better that later) and God, preaching that the ICOC was the only true church (OTC doctrine) and we were the only saved people on Earth, for so many years.

I didn't want to do anything in the ministry because I started to think that all was a big mistake. I was hating the staff meetings. The staff meeting was always the same. Boring, and full of ICOC techniques. I was tired of all that.

I had already lost most of my friends. They left because of the OTC doctrine and many other things, such as the pressure to give contribution and the special contribution, etc. I missed a lot my friends but, at that time, I was very hard with them. I was defending the church in front of them but in my heart I was believing the same things that they were exposing. I feel very bad about that. Sometimes I want to travel in time to change so many things. Why did I do that to my friends? Why did I hurt them? I miss the people who don't want to talk with me anymore. Sometimes I have dreams/nightmares with them. I’m so sorry. I destroyed so many lives. They have the right to not want to talk with me anymore. I deserve that.

And when I remembered my life as an evangelist, I found it horrible. I was an easily angered person, I learned how to put pressure in people's lives and I was living for statistics. It was an awful time. I hurt many. I was a big and horrible example of a cult leader. Nobody wanted to talk with me. All people were afraid to talk with me because of my bad temper. I was prideful, arrogant and not a gentle person. I was like a general, all the time giving orders. I saw the church like an army. I tried sometimes to raise a big family in the church, but I always followed the orders from above: getting more baptisms, filling the statistics forms, executing the plans from above.

I didn't leave the ministry, they fired me in November 2001. They told me that the reason was that my zone, the marrieds, was not baptizing enough people. But the real reason was that I told the lead evangelist Martin Bentley that I will never believe or preach the OTC again in my life. I told him that I prefer to sell food in the street rather than to preach the OTC again. In the past, I was a coward and I was trying to keep my job. But one day I couldn't keep my mouth closed anymore. Less than a month after that conversation I was fired.

When I got fired, Martin Bentley told me that the church would not to pay my severance if I began to criticize the ICOC. Those words shocked me. I couldn’t believe my ears. It was one of the worst things that happened to me. 15 years in the ICOC, 14 in the ministry, and they treated me like a demon. But now I understand that they did to me the same that I did to others. I was receiving the same that I gave to others. But it was a horrible experience. I deserved it.

I called the World Sector Leader, Peter Garcia. I thought that he would understand my points. But he insulted me about “losing my convictions” about the OTC doctrine. He believed that we were the only true church. He treated me very badly. Since then most members in the ICOC of Argentina began to criticize me a lot, calling me bitter and many other things. I heard that at that time, after I moved to Miami, from the pulpit the staff began to say that I was weak with sin in my life and almost losing my faith and falling away.

I was convinced that we weren't the only church and that there were a lot of Christians everywhere. I couldn’t accept anymore that singles have to marry only ICOC people. When I talked with singles I began to feel that something was very wrong. I began to suffer when I saw them - a guilty feeling. I was leaving church (cult) meetings to go to my home with my wife and daughters but the singles were leaving alone, without any hope about finding a soul mate. I couldn’t support that anymore. They were staying singles for years, 13, 15 or more years. All because of an arrogant and stupid teaching that I taught, the OTC doctrine.

The OTC doctrine was dead in my mind and in my heart. I knew that a lot of people were suffering because so many false doctrines and the lack of grace. I was the teacher of all that crap. I was a cult leader. I was like the devil, making my brothers feel guilty about their faults every time I could. I was preaching against God, because He is a merciful God. I was preaching against my brothers and sisters in other churches. Now I feel bad about that. Sometimes, when I go to a Christian Bookstore near my home, I feel bad when I look at the others Christians there. They don’t know what I was. But I know, and that makes me feel bad.

After I got fired, I began to open my heart. I told the lead evangelist too that we needed to move from our houses because they were so expensive to rent. The lead evangelist was paying more than $US 2000 and in Argentina that is a lot of money. I was paying $US 700 at that time for my apartment and that was so expensive!! We were living an easy life with money from the people.

I have to say that Jaime De Anda, elder of our World Sector helped me when I got fired. He apologized for the things that Martin Bentley did to me and my wife. (By the way the Bentley’s have never apologized to us for what they did to us). My best friend and former GSL Andrew Giambarba and his wife Mariana helped us a lot. We always will have a debt of love with them. They invited us to Miami to stay there in the middle of our pain. The South Florida Church helped us a lot, and I’m thankful with a lot of people there like the elders, our evangelist and women’s leader during our time there, Ralph and Aileen Ojeda, and many couples that gave us their hearts and their financial help. We are so thankful to all of them. I love them and miss them a lot. But it is obviously difficult to maintain the friendship because many of them are still members, and I don’t agree with how the elders and the Porter’s are running the ICOC there and how they treated Andrew because he quit. That was a shame.

I left the ICOC this year. It was a long process. The Henry Kriete letter gave me a lot of reasons to leave because it validated a lot of my doubts and concerns. I was so happy when I first read it. But I don’t agree with him staying in the ICOC. I can’t accept it. It's his decision, but I don’t agree. At that time, when HK letter was out, I had hope that things would change. How stupid I was. The ICOC upper leadership, WSL and many GSL, didn’t want to be radical. They didn’t want to make real and deep changes. They wanted to protect their jobs. They are sending their children to school and universities. They can’t stop running the ICOC. Here in Argentina every staff leader is sending their children to private schools. It costs a lot of money that they will not get in other jobs. They want to control people’s lives. I can’t believe that they are preaching, teaching and attending conferences. They must resign and stop attending the ICOC and look for different jobs. It’s hard to accept that someone like Kip McKean, ICOC founder, after all damage that he has caused, is leading a church. It shows me that they are not getting what happened with the ICOC. They can’t accept it. I talked with many leaders in many places. They just don’t get it. I know that it is difficult to realize what I was, a cult leader. It’s a hard truth. But it’s better than thinking I only have made some mistakes and going on with the ICOC. Many in the ICOC are in denial. I was there, I can understand. I believe that the ICOC leaders need to pay for their sins in the ministry with a real repentance. I don’t know any ICOC leader who has shown real and deep repentance. They don’t feel the heavy burden that they deserve to feel. Leaders in the ICOC believe that God called them to preach, but after all that I saw in the ICOC, I believe that God is calling all of them to work in a regular job!!!

The last thing that gave me the strength to leave was that I saw my best friend Andrew Giambarba fighting the upper leadership to get things right in the ICOC. But they didn’t listen to him. Instead of that, they persecuted him and criticized him a lot. It was so bad. I know him, very well, and I know the nightmare that he went through. He quit his job, and he was a Geographic Sector Leader (GSL), married and with three kids. I know that he shares my feelings about our lives in the ICOC. He feels, like me, extremely guilty about the lives that have been so hurt by this un-godly system.

I have come to the conclusion after my experiences in the ICOC that the ICOC is a cult. It’s my opinion that it is not a church but a cult. The amount of damage in so many members' lives and the number of people that have left the ICOC through the years show me that I was in a dangerous system. I have talked with many ex-members in Argentina and other places and the pain they went through is incalculable. It’s difficult to listen to so many people wounded and not to ask myself "Why did I become part of this group? Why did I hurt so many lives? Why didn’t I leave earlier?" It’s difficult to realize what I did with my life this last 15 years.

Now, I fight with my guilt every day. It's so hard to realize how many people I have hurt. I was a cult leader, which is my definition about my life in the ICOC. I was a coward, I was a bad leader. I have had many bad days when I didn’t want to get up of my bed.

Most of my good friends are outside the ICOC now. I have some in the ICOC, I love them and I’m trying to understand their decision to stay inside.

I have a job, thank God, but I don't know how to do anything else!! I was in the ministry since I was 23. I never pursued my plan to become a lawyer because I left university to enter the ministry.

At least now I feel free of all ICOC man-made chains. That is the best thing that has happened in my life. The future is uncertain, but who knows? Better things are ahead I think. I have my wife, my two daughters, and I’m close to my parents.

I have to say thanks to Nicole of the ICC discussion forum. She gave me the idea to write my story and she made the corrections to my english. Thanks Nicole!!. And I have to give thanks to Andrew for correct other mistakes in my writing and encourage me during my bad days. Thanks to all ex-members in the ICC discussion forum for your hard fight.

http://forums.delphiforums.com/ICCdiscussion/messages?msg=8928.1 "Confession of a Former ICOC Evangelist"

Those Clever NY Leaders
Rumors abounded that 7/22 Manhattan Midweek was going to be Sam's "You're Either In, or You're Out" of the Cult *cough* Church. Translation: Either you give us our Money ("tithe") or not. However, it turned out to be a rather anticlimactic night, according to this report.

Main message from the leaders: We're STILL in control, but we're going to "humble out" so you will still let us get our paychecks.

Seems like more people are refusing to buy this crap. (It took this long to see it? Better late than never.) However I personally know more than a few people, who are otherwise intelligent people, who refuse to give up, want to stay and "fight" these leaders.

Wanna fight? Leave and take out another piece of their already dwindling pie. Aren't you sick of them justifying their inflated paychecks? "Get it" already!!!


To All:
I attended my last mid-week last night, and I am jubilant!! It was a very sleek presentation. A brother (Rolf S.) was brought in from another sector to make sure the singing was great. The key word was "appeal". All of the loyal gaurds were there. Jim Brown (famous for his heart to heart talks), Sam Powell (visibly swallowing his pride), Scott Davis (what does Queens have to do with Manhattan?), Robert Cario? (New Jersey?), Dale Porter (does this Sataten Island elder really believe what he's saying?), Steve Johnson (he did'nt sit with the other pharisees in their front row, place of honor), Norman Vulssshulte?(happy as a puppy now that his masters are home), and Paul Ramsey and John Bean (both visibly uncomfortable on stage, and ready to run at a moments notice of a revolt). These were the Southern gentlemen and their co-conspirators for the evening.
Sheridan began with an "appeal" to us to let them help us. He "believes" he is an evangelist. He feels pressure from people asking that he step in, and others telling him to stay away. He "feels" that God put him there to lead. He talked about the "rumors" regarding his taking over Manhattan as an evangelist and starting a secret service. He is in Jersey on Tuesday's and can only make it on Wednesdays. He feels that he should be involved with the transition groups. He is working with primetime and daytime. Elders and evangelists will be giving direction.
Dale Porter, the elder that no one knows, started out by asking "What went wrong? Where are we headed now?" He said "When men of authority are not held accountable, bad things happen. It's more dangerous when good men are not held accountable." He then rehashed the obvious, ie, elders were not leading, it was a one man show, yadda, yadda, yadda.He said that more elders will be appointed and that the congregation will hold them accountable. He suggested that although we consider discipling a bad word, "we need each other."
Sam started out by recanting some of what he said the last time he was there. The "I'm the elder for the Bronx" madness and such. His goal is to "promote unity and love". "The Bible needs to be our standard." He apologized for his offensive statements. He believes Sheridan can lead this group where it wants to go. We must do everything we do by the book. Give them a chance.........He needs to deal with his issues and his heart as in Matt 18.
John Bean had a prepared speech. He spoke about the finance group. Either he or Paul Ramsey (I've forgotten which) called them liars. Paul Ramsey (Dir. of Human Resources) said that the church office is not corrupt or negligent. He feels that all of their administrators are "men of integrity". He said that we should not believe the rumors.
Sam then gave kudos to Norman Vulssshulte saying that "He stood in the trenches, while a lot of people have left", referring to former leaders and evangelists. Sheridan then shared something from Ephesians 14, and announced that Sam Powell and Steve Kinnard would be there next Tuesday.
I could comment, but I think you get the gist of things. In a nice way, they took over. As I said at the beginning, that was my last service, and therefore, I can't say that I have much more to say about them. I will focus on putting this behind me, and helping others to heal, so you probably will not hear much from me. Thank you all for your input, and may God grant you whatever you are looking for.

http://forums.delphiforums.com/ICCdiscussion/messages?msg=7681.83 "Manhattan Rocks!"

More Kip Lite
This time, Ian's Macrosoft Cult-Speak Checker.

I'd like to comment on one particular section - I'll run it through my Macrosoft Cult-Speak Checker just for fun....
==================================

"As for ministers’ compensation, I personally have no problem with people knowing the amount of the salaries"

[translation: "I personally have no problem with people knowing the amount of the salaries... unless they're critics, or disciples with bad hearts, or anybody who has even the slightest suspicion that we've had our snouts in the trough for decades....."]

“Do not muzzle the ox” is a Biblical principle. The amount of salary is an opinion application of that principle"

[translation: "We'll pay ourselves as much as we think we deserve, so shut up, bend over and smile"]

"Our experience has been that when the salaries are revealed many succumb to envy if the salary is more than their own even when the full-time servant has been in the ministry for 10 or 20 years more than they have been in the work force"

[translation: "Never mind the fact that most of us have never worked a day in our lives at a real job, and that we've placed a financial burden on you by endlessly harassing you for money, we deserve to live better than you do. All those challenges to live sacrificially don't apply to us, after all"]

"People in their 20s and 30s who have never bought houses have been critical of ministers in their 40s and 50s buying homes"

[translation: "People who would now be buying their first homes if they hadn't given all their money to support our luxurious lifestyles, should shut up and stop complaining"]

"We need to repent of our critical attitudes and be supportive of our full-time servants"

[translation: "Stop asking where the money is going! We'll throw it into a hole in the ground if we want!"]

"The truth is that a number of ministers have left the ministry because of the constant criticism of their lifestyle and their children - the “fishbowl effect.”"

[translation: "A number of ministers have left after their greed for money was exposed."]

"Instead of criticizing these sacrificial servants, their arms need to be held up so they do not become too weary."

[translation: "When a leader lives in a nice house in a wealthy suburb and sends his kids to expensive private schools, all at the church's expense, he's being a sacrificial servant. When you receive a tax refund or an inheritance and don't give it for SMC, you're being greedy and materialistic, so shut up!"]

"I am not saying that ministers should not be confronted and gently called to repent (Galatians 6:1)"

[translation: "Ministers should be treated gently, given the vaguest and most lenient rebukes. On the other hand, if you commit even one of the many imaginary sins the ICC has invented, you'll be humiliated in front of the church with a loud public condemnation"]

"But when we crucify our strongest leaders, we will be led into mediocrity by leaders who are afraid of the membership and we will not evangelize the world"

[translation: "Cults need harsh, greedy, ruthless leaders, so shut up and stop expecting your evangelist to listen to any of your petty grievances"]

[ PS - shut up! ]

KIP

And along with the new Kip letter... some more NYC / Powell drama. Mid-Manhattan midweek service on July 22 should be verrrry interesting. If you're in the city, check it out (especially if you find the need to scream & yell).

Personally, I think these people who still believe the church can "change" for some reason should go watch Gandhi. Grow a backbone ... don't acknowledge their authority anymore! That is far more effective than "pleading for SP's resignation."

A CALL TO ARMS
On Tuesday July 22nd,at the Manhattan midweek service, Sam and the other elders and evangelists will finalize the splitting of Manhattan that was started by Sheridan Wright. He will discredit and disband the transition teams and the congregation will be forced to choose 'in or out'. We want to keep our region together and continue fighting for repentance in our church. We are pleading for all of the Christians in the NY area to come and help us fight the tyranny and together call, plead, scream for Sam Powell's resignation. The location of the midweek service is 96th Street and Central Park West and the service will be Tuesday July 22nd at 7pm.

'Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace-- but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!' Patrick Henry, March 23, 1775

http://forums.delphiforums.com/ICCdiscussion/messages?msg=7551.1 "SAM POWELL SPLITS MANHATTAN"

Hilariously true thread... Share YOUR favorite leadership hypocrisy story!


I felt an urge to post a story related to me about the hypocricy of some ICC leaders. I thought about posting this in another folder, then I decided to start my own thread so folks can add/comment and also to make it easier for leaders who chronically lurk, reading here to more easily see the stupidity of their ways.
Here goes my story:

A friend told me that when she and her husband were on staff in a particular region of LA sometime ago, they went on a retreat of sorts to a beutiful hotel. Being low on the totem pole, they unpresumptuously checked-into a small, simple non smoking room on the ground floor. The wife almost cried when springs from the furniture poked her as she sat down. Informing the hotel staff, they were thrilled when the hotel manager apologized and led them to where "the other ICC guests were staying." This couple's jaws hit the floor when lo and behold leaders like Kip, Al, Johnathan Perkins, etc., were staying top floor suites, and were collectively enjoying their own little cocktail party, in their words, strolling from room to room fellowshipping one another.

I can also remember a time when I was waiting for our Region's administrator to finish making some notes in his journal at his appartment years ago. The Region leader called and I tried not to listen as this leader related how he had just had a meeting with Kip in Orange county, it was early afternoon, and he was too tired to drive the twenty miles home. He was therefore checking into a beach front hotel and would like the admin to fax some information to him as he wanted to relax and would return to the region tomorrow...

Sheesh... and they wonder why people won't tithe "no more?"

Sharpie.

http://forums.delphiforums.com/ICCdiscussion/messages?msg=7447.1 "Your Favorite Leadership Hypocricy Story"

This is a letter about the (lack of) progress, the lies and divisiveness escalating in NYC.

Dear Brothers and Sisters,

I would like to inform you of what’s happening behind the scenes that only a select few have been informed of. Earlier in the week, I spoke with a former ministry leader who informed me that there was a plan in place to put Sheridan Wright to lead Manhattan. Tonight I had a conversation with Norman to confirm all of these plans.

Norman told me, he is stepping down from the Mid-Manhattan Worship Services transition group. Norman, Sam & Sheridan do not believe that our Region is moving in the right direction and that the transition groups are not working. They are planning to hold a midweek service on Wednesday nights at our space on 96th Street & CPW, led by Sheridan Wright. They believe that the church needs a strong leader to run things, basically we need Sheridan and Sam Powell to lead, not these focus groups we have established. Sheridan has stated clearly that Sam is his Elder, and he is not open to any plan that does not include the ICOC. (In other words financial autonomy is not an option) They disagree with the direction our congregation is heading. Anyone who doesn’t agree with them should not come to the worship services on wends day nights. Sheridan is already in the works to find an apartment; he asked me last night to help him look for a two-bedroom apartment in Manhattan. He is already pulling couples out of our region to join them….(i.e. Tom & Pam Gurrentz, Norman & Jeni Vosshulta). So we would be on our own on Tuesday nights…….. I’m presuming we will lose our space.

What bothers me is t hat all of this was done secretly,without any input from the mid-Manhattan Congregation. All the while Norman is pleading with us to be patient with the Church office and give them more time, for us to be united and work together. Meanwhile, plans are in motion to leave us high and dry, completely abandoning the faithful who have persevered and stayed in our Region to serve.

Our leaders promised that things were supposed to be different, that no longer would leadership outside of our local congregation make decisions for what’s best for us…that things will no longer be done in secret ……I really question how much has changed in the last 4 months… (Maybe we need to read Henry Kriete’s Letter again)

Its strange that the Church leadership didn’t have the time to answer our specific questions regarding our finances….but found the time to plan out Sheridan’s move from NJ to NYC…They say we don’t have a worship space on Sundays b/c we don’t have the money for it….but we have the money to negotiate an additional space on wends day nights, and yet we have the money to hire Sheridan (What kind of salary are we offering him??)….all the while we struggle without having a Sunday Space to worship in….We still have no answers to our questions regarding church finances…..and now our loyalty and patience is repaid with a slap in the face!!!!!!…..It seems like they are saying “Thanks Mid- Manhattan, for all the money, time and sacrifice you’ve given us over the years…….but if you don’t like what Sam, Norman & Sheridan believe go find your own worship space….Good luck” (Sounds familiar?????? ---- take a look at the transcript of the Rockland Sermon Sam Preached a few weeks ago…I’ll give you a re-cap..squash transition groups…reinforce the power and authority of the evangelist and elders….and if you don’t like it too bad….you are shown the door…good luck and we’ll pray for you)

Our elders and ministry staff are being completely divisive…we should remain unified as a region and continue to work our Salvation with fear and trembling and not take any action that would cause divisions.

I write this to encourage us to stand up and express our thoughts…this is Jesus’ church, His body…not Sam’s, not Sheridan’s or Norman’s….we need to stand up to them and not allow them to force us out…….we need to stand up and not allow anything to happen that would destroy our Region….lets protect our church’s unity….and not let it be torn apart by anyone. Brothers, sisters, I plead with you to let your thoughts be known….don’t let any man tell you where and when you should worship, we follow Jesus he is our leader…..

Thank you for taking the time to read my letter.

[ name deleted - initials JB ]

http://forums.delphiforums.com/nycoc/messages?msg=122.1 "DIVISIVENESS ESCALATING - New Letter"

"Leaders' continued demands for "forgiveness" are really just a demand to be excused from consequences." Dave, you are so on point! A great article from Dave Anderson at RightCyberUp:

APOLOGIES ARE NOT ENOUGH

Many churches of the International Churches of Christ (ICC) have issued apologies for some teachings and practices in the first half of 2003. It will take time to see what changes result – and since the ICC has decentralized, where these changes happen and do not happen. With everything currently happening in the ICC, it's clear that these apologies are a start, not an end in themselves.

Why are so many current members and former members leery of the recent ICC apologies? Because ICC leaders have routinely apologized throughout the church’s history, but have never made needed changes.

[Note: This article is not suggesting that ICC leaders never apologize for personal offenses and make corrections: this does happen. However, leadership historically has fallen short is in understanding and correcting its systematic abuses. This article is also not saying that ICC leaders don’t deserve forgiveness for their apologies – in fact, forgiveness and forgetting are two different things, as we'll discuss.]

Apologies heal relationships when they feature two things: sincere regret for past actions followed a kept promise of future change. When not followed by change, apologies can become part of a cycle of abuse.

ICC founder Kip McKean was apologizing for his behavior eighteen years ago – long before the recent upheaval of his movement:

“And I’ve realized I’ve made mistakes in my ministry – and I feel a need to apologize for those, and to let people know that I’ve made mistakes, but I believe that our leadership truly does have a genuine humility and when we make a mistake, we admit it.”

Kip McKean, Book of Acts Overview: Chapters 1-8, Discipleship Publications International, Tape # 10073, recorded in 1985.

This typical 1985 apology brushes off abuses as “mistakes” (and assumes people make mistakes so it’s really nothing to worry about; such apologies probably delayed change by portraying systemic abuse as isolated sins). This “apology” was followed a major one in 1992, when McKean apologized for wrongly teaching that leaders could call members to obey their opinions:

“...I was wrong on some of my initial thoughts about biblical authority. I had felt that church leaders could call people to obey and follow them in all areas of opinion. This was incorrect. I feel very badly for people who were hurt by this wrong stance."

Kip McKean, “Revolution Through Restoration: From Jerusalem to Rome: From Boston to Moscow,” Upside Down, Issue Two, 1992, p. 15.

Kip McKean apparently did not change enough after his early apologies, or he would not have had to issue the major apology with his 2002 resignation.

[http://www.upcyberdown.org/icocmain/Documents/11_02/mckean_resignation.htm]

McKean’s recent hints of a comeback in a Boston Globe interview and his meeting with the Portland Church of Christ beg the question: would McKean be entitled to lead again merely because he said he was sorry (again)?

Apologies alone will not fix the ICC unless they are followed by massive change. Henry Kriete seems to have realized this when he wrote this in his letter that shook the ICC:

"…not only must the sins and abuses be radically repented of (and there are many), but also, more importantly, the structural evils that helped foster them must be theologically exposed and denounced. I am afraid that without this vital step, there will be no profound or permanent change; let alone true forgiveness and healing…

"Our entire religious movement- our culture and belief system, our spiritual abuses, the way we train our Christians, and our control mechanisms are so widespread and invasive, that unless they are officially, uniformly and publicly denounced, they will continue on forever. Sweeping evils and bad theology can only be rectified by exposing and opposing… Movement wide, we have no choice but to admit and apologize, expose and expunge, denounce and dismantle."

(from Henry Kriete: Honest to God)

A former member read this passage at a recent open forum in New York and made the point: New York City Church of Christ leaders were admitting and apologizing, but in his opinion they were not exposing, expunging, denouncing and dismantling.

And at least according to Henry Kriete, apologies and admissions would not be enough.

INTENTION TO CHANGE IS NOT ENOUGH

How quickly should change happen? Consider this ICC definition of “repentance” from one ICC Equipping Class:

“How do I know if someone is repenting?

"Acts 26:20 Prove it by your deeds! [God looks for actions, not intention.]…

"Godly sorry produces (these attitudes)

- Earnestness
- Eagerness to do what’s right!
- Indignation – anger towards your sin
- Ready to do what’s right (whatever it takes)

"Do you have Godly sorry about your sin? [God is looking for the man who will change instantly, eager to deal w/ sin]”

Greater Philadelphia Church of Christ, “Sin and Repentance,” Equipping Class for Young Disciples, 1991 [note: comments in brackets handwritten by a member].

According to this ICC definition, repentance means instant action – intent to change is not enough. But someone pointed out this irony recently here on the ICC Discussion Forum: some ICC churches are “repenting” but telling members that change will take time, change will be slow, members need to be patient, etc.

Ironically, the church has always expected instant “repentance” from its recuits and converts (see above). It seems there is a double-standard, at least in some ICC churches that have been slow to change. Such churches need to either repent of the double-standard, or live out their own definition of repentance. They should change instantly and urgently wherever possible (governance changes may take time, but practices, doctrines and attitudes can change almost instantly).

Danger looms that the recognition of problems won’t result in sufficient change -- as has happened in the ICC before. Consider this impassioned plea from Lisa Johnson in 1990. This Women’s World Sector Leader pointed out systemic problems to a meeting of the movement’s women’s leaders and called for change. It is a tragedy that the same types of problems continued to happen years later. It’s a long quote, but worth the read:

“Now this – I mean this sisters. I mean this, this is from the bottom of my heart. This is what I came to say today, to you. I believe that you have quit believing that grace will motivate people. You, personally. Take it personally. Take it individually. I believe that is one of the major problems in our movement, today. We must see it. I’ve seen the dangers, the abuses, the results of it, it is horrendous, it is sickening, it is frightening. We have got to trust that grace motivates people. We don’t need the things that we use to motivate people….

"We’ve got to start letting God speak for himself. I think we’re making a lot of mistakes, and the thing that frightens me the most is the young leadership. I mean, we are putting people that are – some of you – that are young leaders, with lots of responsibility over lots of people. …I’m at the point where I feel like we just need to shut up and read the Bible. That it’s getting dangerous some of the things we tell each other, some of the things that we’ve done. I’m upset and I’m scared about it. I think that we have got to make a decision to repent. You know, the abuses are amazing – we begin to crystallize things – we’ve talked about it before, but sisters it’s time to change it.

"I know something that happened in Johannesburg recently, was a dating situation. It’s like, one of the couples asked for some specific dating advice, and people even overheard the advice they were given. It had to do with how often to kiss… But let me – you know what happened, don’t you? I don’t even have to tell the rest of the story. Everybody just thought, well, that was the new rule. The rule was that you kissed once a week and it’s for five seconds and you’re being held accountable to that. That was the rule. And they even came to Capetown telling us, this is the rules in Johannesburg for kissing. Absolutely. Let me tell you, the danger in that is amazing. I mean, we have got to begin to use – teach what the Bible teaches, and be – and shut up where the Bible shuts up. I mean, we’ve got to start being careful. Now we’ve got to still use guidelines and give each other advice, but we’ve got to make it clear to people you can’t crystallize things like this. Sisters, I am afraid that we do add to the Word….

"We have got to begin to use the scriptures, and use them powerfully, or we’re going to end up in Mark 7. That’s the fear that I have. We’re going to end up in Matthew 15, where Jesus says, ‘Your doctrines, are rules made by men….’

"You know, we’ve got to be careful the advice that we give. Sisters, there was a situation in New York where some sisters were giving advice – some young, I mean, single sisters – giving advice on things about whether this woman should sell her Jaguar or not. These girls had never ridden in a Jaguar before. …I wanted them to know very clearly, they were in over their head. They had no business giving advice about things they knew nothing about – they were telling her she ought to sell her apartment. I mean, for goodness’ sake, they have no financial background, here. We have got to learn where to just talk where the Bible talks, and to do what the Bible – we’ve got to ask ourselves, ‘Who do we think we are? Are we lording it over people?’ Are we lording it over people?"

Lisa Johnson, Crashing Through The Quitting Places: Discipleship, Women’s Retreat, Boston, audio tape, 1990.

The changes largely did not happen. Thirteen years later, Lisa Johnson stood before the members of the New York City Church of Christ apologizing for these same kinds of abuses in her ministry, saying “I was blind.”

Actually, it seems she wasn’t blind at all; she saw more than most. She was just unable (or perhaps unwilling) to change it.

FORGIVING IS NOT FORGETTING

Recently, I received a few emails from members criticizing me for not forgiving. I found this odd, because for the most part I do not even feel I have been wronged personally by the ICC: any few wrongs, I forgave long ago.

Then I realized this misperception came from a fallacy spread by ICC leadership over the years – that if a person criticizes, it means that they haven’t forgiven and must be in the wrong. (What a classic way of turning the tables and “questioning the questioner” rather than responding to a criticism!)

As one ICC former member points out in an upcoming REVEAL article, some recent ICC appeals for forgiveness seem designed to benefit leaders, not members:

"The ICC leadership is now promulgating that grace and forgiveness must be lavished on the situation. Refer to the announcement of the creation of the Unity Conference to see what I mean. To forgive is a good thing; however, like all good things, forgiveness can be misused. Forgiveness should serve to promote positive change in a relationship. When misused, forgiveness can stifle growth and perpetuate the very wrongdoings that are the subject of forgiveness. This is an important consideration, because such forgiveness is used to empower the ICC leadership rather than promote reform.

Keith Stump, Control Mechanisms in the ICC, www.reveal.org.

Some members in the ICC are now calling for their leaders to resign. Does it mean they haven’t “forgiven”? Not necessarily. “To forgive is to forget” may be a memorable cliché, but it is not a Biblical phrase (Footnote 1), nor does it truly reflect how human emotions work. Some people who ask critics to “forgive” the ICC’s abuses are really asking them to “forget” them. Forgiving benefits everyone, but forgetting benefits a repeat abuser.

A current member very eloquently described the difference between forgiving and forgetting at one New York City Church of Christ "open forum." He expressed how he felt after one of his young children had been sexually abused. He struggled for years to forgive but eventually learned to let go of hatred for the unknown person who had hurt his child. His faith helped him to do this. However, he said, if he ever learned who committed this terrible act, he would never again allow that person to be put in a position to abuse his child. It was his responsibility as a Christian to forgive, but his responsibility as a parent not to forget.

So it is in the ICC, where too many apologies of the past have been manipulative apologies -- broken promises not followed by change. You can forgive it, but please don’t forget it.

**************

(Footnote 1) Many people are aware of Jesus’ ideal of forgiving someone seventy times seven times when they ask for forgiveness (Matthew 18:21-35). But if leaders abuse Christ’s church, it makes sense that Jesus would not want a leader to seriously harm the church 490 times and remain a leader – just like it’s reasonable that Jesus would not want people to forget the sins of a child or spouse abuser, even if they had forgiven him. Is this analogy overstated? No, biblically the church is like the bride of Christ (Ephesians 5:25-32). He did not purchase it with his blood (Revelation 5:9) so that it could be serially abused.

RightCyberUp: Recovery from the International Churches of Christ http://rightcyberup.org

http://www.rightcyberup.org/news/apologies-apologies.html
http://forums.delphiforums.com/iccdiscussion/messages/?msg=7038.1

Leslie's reaction to the letter distribution. Leslie Clemmons is an ICC member. It is clear that she is afraid of committing slander, despite the leaders' dubious financial track record. How is it actually "sin"? If anything, sounds like another case of ICC guilt.

Proper term would be "libel," since it's written communication. Libel a: a written or oral defamatory statement or representation that conveys an unjustly unfavorable impression b : a statement or representation published without just cause and tending to expose another to public contempt

In this case, there IS "just cause" because leaders were giving only watered down financial info (See below, March 27) and there have been several written complaints about the NYC COC finances sent to the NY State Attorney General.

Anyway, the ones in the darkness are the ones who really should be ashamed and afraid. Let the light shine -- "May God's wrath speak fiercely."

May 12, 2003

Aces churches and NYCOC and to whomever else it may concern:

Dear Brothers and Sisters in Christ:

I am writing this letter to confess sin on my part, possibly confront sin on the part of other people, and set the record straight. As some of you may know a letter that I wrote has been posted on the Internet for all to read. This mass display of this letter was by no means my intention and was done so without my knowledge or permission. In fact, the site where this letter has been posted requires membership (a username & password) and I have never been a member of this website. This letter was exclusively given to the sister who told me of the information found in the letter for her review, one brother who was trustworthy in order to let me know his thoughts on the letter, and one sister in a congregation far, far away whom I trusted for her review and thoughts and expressed that I wanted to make sure the information was accurate before I sent it to the church. I was later told that the letter was full of inaccuracies. I never brought it before the church and realized that I did not need to be the one to bring these issues before the church. If anyone should, it should be the person who gave me the information.

Some two weeks ago a sister invited me to come up to her area and spend time with her. She wanted to tell me some things that she had discovered about the church finances and wished to tell me of her recent meeting with Henry Kriete. She expressed to me that she had already talked to the people involved and that they were not admitting to any wrongdoing and that she was now ready to bring it to the church. She encouraged me to bring a bus load of people with me if I wanted. I remember this quote distinctly, because I immediately thought, WORD (pardon the Hip Hop vernacular). I was unable to get anyone to come with me.

After hearing what she had to say, taking in the extraordinary intensity of this information, I asked her repeatedly if she was sure of what she was saying. I even asked her if the information was documented. And she said that what she was telling me was fact. And because of the fact that she tearfully told me that this information involved one of her best friends, I believed her story all the more.

Now is the time to confess my sin. After digesting this information, I grew very alarmed, afraid for the church and the leaders mentioned, and also very angry. And in my anger I sinned for mans anger does not bring about the righteous life that God desires. Let me clarify. In the Bible, God provides for sin offerings even for sins that are unintentional as is the case here. If the unintentional sin is committed by an individual, the guilty person must bring a one-year-old female goat for a sin offering(Numbers 15:27, NLT) I, however, am not the one-year-old female goat in question. But, I am guilty and I must take the responsibility (Leviticus 4:22, Leviticus 5:17) and apologize to everyone mentioned in the letter and anyone else that this has affected. Had I intended the letter to go out to the public, I believe I would have practiced the directives in Matthew 18. Yet, due to the current climate in the church, it was unwise for me to send it to anyone at all. For this I take full responsibility and I profusely apologize to all in concern. I now understand how many of the leaders in the ICOC must feel. We are all guilty of unintentional sins but, that does not prevent us from taking on the responsibility. Probably my greatest sin in this was even listening and getting involved in the first place. However, if all of the leaders in the New York church and surrounding areas would be as transparent as they have always called us to be, then, I am sure that this scenario would not even exist. I never intended to slander anyone but now I find myself involved in what seems to be slander, even though, I dont know what the truth in this situation really is. I have been hurt myself in all of this mostly because I have hurt so many people whom I love. This is the truth. Please forgive me.

Sincerely,
Leslie Clemmons
Member, NYCOC since 1991

http://forums.delphiforums.com/ICCdiscussion/messages?msg=6184.97 "3 MILLION from ACES to ATHENS"

RELEVANT HISTORICAL LINKS:
ICC DF: "3 MILLION from ACES to ATHENS"
ICC DF: "Suing the ICC / NYC COC"

An example of current ICC leadership tactics to deal with "dissidents" (deceit, divide/conquer, labeling, theatrics, etc.): Sam Powell et al in the Bronx, NYC

First after meeting with some of the concerned vocal members, Sam Powell deceived them that he was open to meeting with these members and discuss the issues if they first provided an agenda for the meeting. The members of the "group" (the term used by the leaders to describe them) complied and furnished the agenda to the Bronx staff and the meeting was set for Friday May 2 at 7:30PM.
In reality the meeting was a set up by Sam Powell and Marcos Mercado to identify who were the dissident members and how many there might be.

The meeting was conducted in a small classroom rather than the auditorium. This was to gain a tactical advantage over the "group" members. Sam Powell and the Bronx Staff agreed that both sides of the issues would be allowed to bring support people to the meeting. Sam and Company brought a cadre of loyalist hecklers to the meeting. Two former members who had been in the Bronx for many years also came to support members of the "group" at their invitation since one of the agenda topics was to deal with ex-members.

Upon seeing the ex-members Sam and Marcos immediately went into conference and after a few minutes. They called one of them into the hallway any ask him to leave stating that this was a private meeting between the BX staff and the Men of the NYCCOC. The ex-members are currently members of the Manhattan Church of Christ. The ex-member told Sam that he had been invited by a current member as an observer and not as a participant. Nevertheless, Sam and Marcos ejected both members from the meeting. Next to be ejected were the women members until these men had the complete upper hand in the meeting.

Needless to say none of the issues were allow to be discussed. Sam refused to answer any questions that were on the agreed to agenda. The loyalist faction stirred up so much discontent that a fistfight nearly broke out bet a Brother (Curtis Escalera) and Marcos the South BX Evangelist. The meeting ended with only the reformers being identified or "trouble Makers" as the leadership has labeled them.

The next day Sat May 3rd, the Bronx Staff and the loyalist faction met in the Bronx for a barbeque at a loyalist's (who's initials are KF) home. Steve J and Sam and some of the BX staff got together an informal D-group and had a Powwow to discuss tactic's to contain and eradicate the "group". The coward Steve offered up his opinions to Sam his co-worker in destruction.

Sunday May 4th, as discussed by others the "final Solution" was put into play. Marcos Mercado stood with Lehman security and identified to them members of the "group" to be watched as "trouble makers" who were to be ejected from the service if they attempted to disrupt it.

In his opening remarks Marcos warned the audience that no interruption of the service would be tolerated by the Lehman security and that charges of disorderly conduct would be leveled against anyone who did. He stated that this was not initiated by the Bronx staff but by the Lehman security. This was a complete and utter lie by Marcos! Marcos informed the Lehman security and instructed them to to take action not the other way around. In fact when a Brother and his wife walked onto the stage to speak without permission. It was Sam who sprinted to the rear of the auditorium to get security and have them removed. When the brother who ran up to the front at yelled at Sam "Sam your a crook and a liar" during Sam's tirade of a message. It was Marcos who pleaded with security to have them removed, arrested and charged. Marcos's request was denied and the security told him that they only could remove him from the service. Sam then proceeded to use the pulpit to attack a brother of trying to destroy the Spanish Ministry and also drew the line of either support the leaders or get out. He attack the brother because he had made available the Henry Krite letter available translated in Spanish and preached a message that was Godly. He was attacked for speaking the truth!

The purge has begun. Sam Powell after preaching his get out message and calling on the membership to achieve unity by idenitfiying and asking anyone who was not with "us" to leave, then proceeded to remove the "trouble makers from the membership". Andre Cooper and his wife were the ones who shouted to Sam at the service who Marcos attempted to get arrested was told by Sam that he was no longer a member of the church and therefore not welcome here. Marcos Mercado waited for Curtis Escalera to arrive at midweek with security guard at his side. Upon seeing Curtis he told the guard "that's one of the trouble makers don't let him in" He then block his path and told him "your not welcome here" " your are a part of the group". He also asked him if he had gone to meet with a particular Brother. Curtis responded "since when is it a crime to spend some time with my Brother in Christ?". The Brother who Curtis was asked about is a primary vocalist for reform and repentance. Curtis was shocked by all of this because had thought everything had been resolved on Sunday between he and Marcos because they had both apologized to each other. Marcos nevertheless stated "Yeah I know we apologized but fifteen of the members have met and don't want you here", "Your not welcome here". Upon hearing these words the security guard told Curtis with disbelief " I can't believe that guy is your Evangelist? "Is he suppose to be a man of God?" Sam also put out another Brother of long and faithful standing after being grilled and accused of being a "group" supporter.

All these removals are contrary to Matt 18. These men were not brought before the church or put out by the church. They have done nothing but seek answers from the leadership and called for their repentance. The leaders have refused to answer any financial questions and have refused to allow the membership to remove them from power and chose new leaders as is there right. Sam continues to act in an ungodly, unbiblical way. He in fact by his actions is guilty of heresy because he has denied the Holy Spirit to lead the church. He is preaching another Gospel and is corrupting the weak minded Christians who remain to attack their own brothers. He has preached the (false) Gospel in order to receive monetary gain. He is guilty of dividing the church to remain in power and has caused many hundreds of the flock to stray away from the church. The entire NYCCOC is fractured and is in a complete shambles because of his leadership.

Yesterday, in order to consolidate his power base he asked Will Pena to resign his position as Evangelist because he was sympathetic to some of the "group " members. Will was forced to say it was because of other reasons because he was treatened.

On the horizon in the Bronx. Mike Patterson will announce his resignation from the Bronx Staff within the next two weeks. He will be moving to Florida to wrk in the private sector. His wife already has gotten a job. I don't know what reason that he will give but I speculate that his wife was nearly at a point of having a nervous breakdown because of the high levels of pressure they have been feeling from the negative reactions of the membership and for other family issues. Look for Sam and Marcos to recruit a replacement to take Mike's place because you can't have two bad cops and not one good cop. It will probably be a blast from the past leader with former Bronx glory who was highly respected and loved. I have an idea who it is but it has not been confirmed. Most Probabaly Frank Davis or some one like him. A very attractive package has been offered so lets see who bites! Look for more "group" members to be approached by the leaders and their loyal leg breakers to be put out of the church for knowing too much and asking the wrong questions.

Bronx members rise up against these slavemasters. Don't leave unless you want to leave! Don't let these Ministers of Satan put you out. They do not have the power to remove you! They are only using fear and lies against you just like Satan does. Don't be intimidated! Don't give your money until you know where it has gone! The time of victory is coming and these men will be brought down! They will be disgraced before all to see for their actions.

http://forums.delphiforums.com/ICCdiscussion/messages?msg=6155.1 "Bronx Ministers of Evil are in control!"

RELEVANT HISTORICAL LINKS:
ICC DF: NYC Possible Disfellowship Tonight
ICC DF: NYC ICOC starting a NEW Church (corporate structure issues)
ICC DF: Sam Powell "Apology"
ICC DF: NYC: Sam Powell's BS Apology (actual text of apology)
ICC DF: young Manhattan leader resignations
ICC DF: NYC Daytime Midweek 3/6
ICC DF: WHY NYC Elders Still in Charge?
ICC DF: NYC WS Region midweek 3-4-2003 (Timmygee's confrontation)
ICC DF: NYC Discussion With Steve J. Garry V.
ICC DF: Steve Johnson Booed out of the Bronx?
ICC DF: Asleep In Brooklyn