Evaluating the International Churches of Christ ten years after the Henry Kriete Letter.

Status of the ICOC, 10 years after Henry Kriete.
Written by X-Ray of the ICC DF forum (which is still active!)

Evaluating the International Churches of Christ ten years after the Henry Kriete Letter.

It's all fixed! Mike Taliaferro HotNews Editorial

Fascinating editorial from Mike Taliaferro, claiming "it's all fixed!" See article below.

Has a new era begun in the ICOC? Editorial 

The 1980's and 90's were a heady period of growth and expansion for the International Churches of Christ. We exploded into over 100 nations, and planted 500 churches worldwide. As the 90's finished, however, our growth had stopped, our US churches were shrinking, and there were some problems we needed to face.

When the new millennium dawned, our issues became a full blown crisis. We lost 30% of our members, and what followed was a decade of reflection, repentance, and reorganization. As a fellowship we took several big steps. We apologized to each other. We held painful open forums in many congregations. Leadership practices were examined, and we repented where needed. The appropriate people were fired. We abolished worldwide offices of authority. It was a painful yet productive decade, and through the power of God we watched as He righted the ship and healed our wounds.

Today we are a fellowship of churches that loves God's word and is eager to spread his message. We have tossed out the old pride and braggadocio, and (hopefully) replaced it with a humble attitude about ourselves, and toward other Christians outside our churches.

Honestly, I have never been more proud to be a part of the ICOC. We always said that if we got off track, we would examine the Bible, correct our mistakes, and recommit ourselves to the mission. I believe that is exactly what has happened.

So has a new era begun? Only time will tell, but it seems that "the storm is passing over." Indeed, the clean up may be finished as well. Over the last few years, the climate has changed from one of looking backward to looking forward. Instead of correcting old mistakes, we are now focused on scaling new heights. Members around the world are comfortable with the way churches are cooperating. Trust has broken out. People are able to work together in exciting and productive ways.

The World Summit in San Antonio was a benchmark in our collective path. It was a celebration and conference like we have never had before. Not only was it our biggest gathering by far (roughly 17,000 attended), but it was perhaps the most positive and forward looking event in over a decade. HotNews believes we have crested the summit, and are now truly advancing. Yes, we will face new problems in the future. And yes, we will need to be continually vigilant about not repeating past mistakes. But for the first time in recent memory, it appears we are back on the move, eyes forward, with plans and dreams and visions of helping others to know Christ.

In a word, we are leaving the distrust and reflection of the last decade behind, and moving into an era of growth and progress for God. That is what we are sensing and praying for here at HotNews. I for one will be excited to see what God has in store for us in this new and very promising decade. Tell me what you think.

Mike Taliaferro
mtaliaferro1@satx.rr.com

ICOC roots in Erhard's EST and Human Potential Movement

I participated in the Landmark Forum a few months ago, a seminar that is pseudo-well known. Many of you may have been "invited" to one. Sound familiar? While there I noted both ICOC and Landmark's roots in Erhard's EST, as I was very struck by the similarities. Insights are developed through long, intense large group seminars, as well as small group and individual coaching. Emphases on sharing - in a pyramid scheme model for the organization, yes - but it is the way to move insights from your head into real life. How much it actually does, depends on whether you interpret it as doing what someone told you to do, vs. choosing to take truly deeply felt insights and share them with others in a transformative way- in a way that makes an impact. Again - sound familiar?

More on Erhard's est and the human potential movement (HPM) here: http://www.believermag.com/issues/200305/?read=article_snider

Let me know what you all think.

Been a while-what is the status of the ICOC (and ICC DF) now?

All I see in the ICC DF are moderator changes and complaints that it's turning into a right-wing discussion forum. Boring. What is going on now?

Since this blog was a compilation of hot threads in the ICC DF, I'm sadly not posting much anymore. Plus having gotten a better life, it's hard to stay motivated.

Help me out here: anyone got anything substantive to post about the current status of the ICOC? Feel free to comment, and/or point us to some ICC DF related discussions, if any (no names, just general topics with enough detail one can search).

Thanks, and sorry this place has been a bit dead for over a year (with occasional commentary). Appreciate anything you, my readers, all have to add. And please, chill out on the uber-religious, rants - this is not the place for it. Thanks, all. And I hope in all sincerity you are finding your path and calling, with or without the ICOC.

Life is awesome for me, more awesome than I'd ever have imagined, after the ICOC.

Kip's starting SODM in Boston

Was this not predictable or what.

Christian Research Institute article, ICOC in Upheaval

Elegant summary of the demise of the ICOC as we knew it, back then...

ICOC: International Churches of Christ in Upheaval

"Empire City" Church's first service in NYC

40 visitors? = there's a sucker born every minute.

Back in 1994, I attended my first church service of the NYC Church of Christ. I was 19 years and ready to make a change not only in my life, but to change the world as well. That service was actually a performance of Upside Down. Remember that play? People from all over the Northeast and beyond had come to see that show.

I remember checking out my second church service at a hotel near my parent's place just a few states away. There were at least 3 services going on in this hotel, and the one I ended up at had some people who had been on wheelchairs lying in the back, wailing. I learned that I had ended up at some Pentecostal service - not the ICC. Not that I could honestly tell that much of a difference, except for the wailing.

When I finally figured out how to recognize an ICC service, I found they were more like the ones pictured in the link at the Empire ICC city site.

Pretty bland - a conference room, mediocre singers, a young man who thinks more highly of himself than he'd ever admit and a soft pseudo-humble expression on his face when people approach him.

If you look at the front row, you'll see the old master, Kip, with his overgrown mullet. He still thinks he's going to change the world with that humble little service in some random NYC hotel.

All I know is that people keep giving him money.

When will you all ever learn? Took me a while til I finally did. It doesn't matter how cognitively intelligent you are - it's about what grabs your emotions. And he knows how to do it.

When you want to change the world, better watch out for those who want to change - and shortchange - you.

Steve Johnson vs. Kip McKean

Sorry to take so long to post this, but this is so hilarious. Steve Johnson has split from Kip and the SODM (Portland AKA Sold Out Discipling Movement or SODOM, I mean, SODM)!!

Linkie

IMO they are both complete asses. And clearly I'm not the only one who thinks so.

A funny thing happened on my way

... to my liberal arts degree

http://exchristian.net/testimonies/2008/02/funny-thing-happened-on-my-way-to-my.html

I've read lots of ex-christian stories but this one is hilarious. The guy, an atheist, gets elected president of his college's Baptist club!!! Too funny...

Tom Beam Leaves $11 Million Endowment for ICOC Missions

$11 Million to spread the love!

Tom Beam was, apparently, a seat belt manufacturer. He attributed his company's success to "Christian values and its employees."

I can only take comfort in the fact that somewhere out there, Kip is weeping.

Sigh / Vomit.

Say it Bro!

From my fave 'bro' Pope:

Wow. Another "new" movement? Seriously, what kind of rickety old incompetent god do these people worship that he'd send them back to the city that kicked their asses? "This time it's gonna stick!" so sayeth the Lord. Even the local cult knows better than to have anything to do with Kip. At least Jesus had enough self respect to say something about dust, feet and wiping. Anyone who'd have something to do with Kip at this point is a moron. It seems that Kip has to go to smaller and smaller towns to find someone dumb enough to believe his hype. I have no idea who this DJ guy is, but he is obviously the result of much barrel scraping.

Kip's new "Empire City International Christian Church"... Wha?

I don't know how Kip came up with this idiotic name for his new NYC church planting. It sounds like a name some confused tourist picked up. And I love the pic of the douches that are now leading this new "movement" - DJ & Kacie!

DJ & Kacie pictured atop the Empire State Building!

BTW, DJ and Kacie want you to contact them...

Please, if you are interested, give Kacie and me a call at 740-334-2396 or email me at dj@caicc.net. And to God be all the glory He wants and so deserves!

Mwah hah. Just in time. Following the ICOC had gotten totally boring...

Thread
DJ's article

Songs of Praise (with Subtitles)

This beautiful music makes me want to go back to church this Thanksgiving.

Boohoo!!!

Mike Taliaferro tears his garments over the fact that the pseudo-ICOC has no official web site. But mommy ... the Catholics, Mormons, Baptists, Methodists, not to mention every other organization out there has a free website !

Sweetie, no amount of official web site is going to offset the 1,000,000,000's of web pages of testimonials that say you're a cult leader! Now go play with your toys. All 70% of them.

http://www.icochotnews.com/?q=node/62

(Discussion here and here)

ICOC on Wikipedia

A simmering battle for control of the ICOC article on Wikipedia...

For the past year, there has been some rather vitriolic editing of the
Wikipedia article on the ICOC. On the ICOC side, a current member (and rather poor writer) from Europe, "Transylvanian Karl," (AKA Tranny K) displays those OCD control issues of Bible Talk leaders from back in the day (or not so back in the day). If you click the "Discussion" tab at the top of the article, you can access the Tranny's recent arguments in favor of his long-winded, tyrannical lists of churches and other edits. Those opposing him range from your typical not-so-anonymous ICC DF'ers to dedicated Wikipedia regulars who, in trying to bring the article to standard, had no idea what they were in for.

The version of the Wiki article so aggressively thrown up against the wall since 2006 by Tranny, was recently replaced (Aug 21 07) by a more impartial version written by "Xiaphias" - and now Tranny's accusing him of vandalism (although Tranny himself hijacked the article 1 year ago).

X. has requested mediation. Now THAT'S going to be interesting.

Check out the "History" tab to see various versions of article over the past year. (Wikipedia has a nice feature where you can also look at past versions of the discussion/talk page). Or see specific versions below.

Aug 21 2007 version by Xiaphias. Scroll down for the actual article.

How to become a cult leader

Thanks Splash90 for the link...

----------------------

This video is AMAZING. It's like an old bad cheap 60s 'educational' film -- and it's hilarious. (after the one slightly gross part at the beginning).

There were soooo many parts of this video that were JUST like my experiences in the ICOC. Anybody who doubts that the ICOC is a cult just needs to watch this. If this doesn't convince them/you - nothing will!!!!

Video: How To Become A Cult Leader - A Real Video clip. Following the film’s expose of a fictional cult group called Emerge, it will vividly explain with relentlessly black humor how cults enslave and ensnare people through the most basic and the mundane of human existence.

Exercise

An innocent discussion on health and exercise mentions a certain former WML and American Idol aspirant's boob job while working for the church, along with the usual rant about never having enough time to work out or do anything for your health while in the ICOC... but wasn't McKean a big "jock"? I guess only ministry people can take care of themselves, including their boob size!!

(also mentions the only weight-loss program that's ever worked for me, and we're not talking about Weigh Down...)

OK, now Kip's MOVING to LA.

I agree ttk: "Time to pop the popcorn!"

per his sermon......leaving Steve in charge. Taking the Gonzalez(older and younger), DJ Comisford for now and then DJ will be going to NYC later in year. Taking Bordeleis(sp) and Underhills as shepherds.

Also sending teams to Brisbane and London in 2007.

ttk

Plus additional rumors on why Kip may have put Steve Johnson in charge of Portland.

just wondering....

I just read the DT letter and it refers to him without using his name..but being the only brother still with kipper. My personal opinion of sj is that he just went with kip to ease his conscience of the guilt. I know he was also really close to DA who just spoke against kipper. It makes me wonder what is going on behind the scenes with him. Is DA trying to talk some sense into him? Is it now just a matter of job security? or does he still believe it 100% and will die with the kipster? It would be interesting to see how it played out if even he turned away.

Ah, right. Kip's new LA church.

Posted by Jim_P59. A call to protest ... but isn't that what Kip AKA I'm-the-Martin-Luther-King-of-Christianity, wants?

---
Finally de-lurking after GUEST-ing all these months, (BTW, I'm previously a member of the West Region---now out, thankfully...)

Just a thought...

In two days, Kip will be inaugurating his new...

"LOS ANGELES INTERNATIONAL CHRISTIAN CHURCH"

at the [snipped - see post link for details]

Speaking as an ex-member, I think Kip's got a lot of balls coming back here---seeing how I and thousands of others spent over a decade in debt.

Why?

Well, this was SUPPOSEDLY to "evangelize the world", and instead it went for things like Kip's kids top-of-the-line education---

--- the most expensive private school k-thru-12 X 3 kids

--- 2 4-year tuitions at Harvard

---- 4-year tuition to Stanford.

---- private tennis lessons, and air travel to countless out-of-town tournaments.

All of that totals OVER $1 MILLION DOLLARS!!!!!!!!!!!!

But that was okay-----Kip said---to blow church donations on that, because Kip's kids were going to lead the movement in the next generation (although how their "ministry future" justified the ultra-expensive tennis obsession for all three kids, I've never understood).

But no... NOW, all three spoiled brats have left "the ministry", and no longer practice any religion of any kind.

Oh, and one just got knocked up, and had a shotgun wedding.

Well, that was money well spent... NOT!!!

The Book of Timothy renders an opinion on any person whose grown kids turn out this way---

THAT PERSON AND HIS WIFE ARE NOT FIT FOR THE MINISTRY!!!!!!!!!

BE THERE, OR BE SQUARE!!!!

LA ICOC Publicly Marks Kip McKean

Posted by WildJen. So what's next, Kip marks the LA ICOC?

http://www.laicc.net/content/churchletter.htm


'bout damn time.