ICOC Blogspot

Kip's starting SODM in Boston

2010-11-28T00:35:00.000-05:00

Was this not predictable or what.

Christian Research Institute article, ICOC in Upheaval

2010-01-05T15:39:00.000-05:00

Elegant summary of the demise of the ICOC as we knew it, back then...

ICOC: International Churches of Christ in Upheaval

"Empire City" Church's first service in NYC

2008-09-24T14:32:00.005-04:00

40 visitors? = there's a sucker born every minute.

Back in 1994, I attended my first church service of the NYC Church of Christ. I was 19 years and ready to make a change not only in my life, but to change the world as well. That service was actually a performance of Upside Down. Remember that play? People from all over the Northeast and beyond had come to see that show.

I remember checking out my second church service at a hotel near my parent's place just a few states away. There were at least 3 services going on in this hotel, and the one I ended up at had some people who had been on wheelchairs lying in the back, wailing. I learned that I had ended up at some Pentecostal service - not the ICC. Not that I could honestly tell that much of a difference, except for the wailing.

When I finally figured out how to recognize an ICC service, I found they were more like the ones pictured in the link at the Empire ICC city site.

Pretty bland - a conference room, mediocre singers, a young man who thinks more highly of himself than he'd ever admit and a soft pseudo-humble expression on his face when people approach him.

If you look at the front row, you'll see the old master, Kip, with his overgrown mullet. He still thinks he's going to change the world with that humble little service in some random NYC hotel.

All I know is that people keep giving him money.

When will you all ever learn? Took me a while til I finally did. It doesn't matter how cognitively intelligent you are - it's about what grabs your emotions. And he knows how to do it.

When you want to change the world, better watch out for those who want to change - and shortchange - you.

Steve Johnson vs. Kip McKean

2008-09-09T11:01:00.001-04:00

Sorry to take so long to post this, but this is so hilarious. Steve Johnson has split from Kip and the SODM (Portland AKA Sold Out Discipling Movement or SODOM, I mean, SODM)!!

Linkie

IMO they are both complete asses. And clearly I'm not the only one who thinks so.

A funny thing happened on my way

2008-02-01T11:11:00.000-05:00

... to my liberal arts degree

http://exchristian.net/testimonies/2008/02/funny-thing-happened-on-my-way-to-my.html

I've read lots of ex-christian stories but this one is hilarious. The guy, an atheist, gets elected president of his college's Baptist club!!! Too funny...

Tom Beam Leaves $11 Million Endowment for ICOC Missions

2007-12-13T13:11:00.000-05:00

$11 Million to spread the love!

Tom Beam was, apparently, a seat belt manufacturer. He attributed his company's success to "Christian values and its employees."

I can only take comfort in the fact that somewhere out there, Kip is weeping.

Sigh / Vomit.

Say it Bro!

2007-11-29T15:43:00.000-05:00

From my fave 'bro' Pope:

Wow. Another "new" movement? Seriously, what kind of rickety old incompetent god do these people worship that he'd send them back to the city that kicked their asses? "This time it's gonna stick!" so sayeth the Lord. Even the local cult knows better than to have anything to do with Kip. At least Jesus had enough self respect to say something about dust, feet and wiping. Anyone who'd have something to do with Kip at this point is a moron. It seems that Kip has to go to smaller and smaller towns to find someone dumb enough to believe his hype. I have no idea who this DJ guy is, but he is obviously the result of much barrel scraping.

Kip's new "Empire City International Christian Church"... Wha?

2007-11-27T00:11:00.000-05:00

I don't know how Kip came up with this idiotic name for his new NYC church planting. It sounds like a name some confused tourist picked up. And I love the pic of the douches that are now leading this new "movement" - DJ & Kacie!

DJ & Kacie pictured atop the Empire State Building!

BTW, DJ and Kacie want you to contact them...

Please, if you are interested, give Kacie and me a call at 740-334-2396 or email me at dj@caicc.net. And to God be all the glory He wants and so deserves!

Mwah hah. Just in time. Following the ICOC had gotten totally boring...

Thread
DJ's article

Songs of Praise (with Subtitles)

2007-11-12T22:38:00.000-05:00

This beautiful music makes me want to go back to church this Thanksgiving.

Boohoo!!!

2007-10-27T14:29:00.000-04:00

Mike Taliaferro tears his garments over the fact that the pseudo-ICOC has no official web site. But mommy ... the Catholics, Mormons, Baptists, Methodists, not to mention every other organization out there has a free website !

Sweetie, no amount of official web site is going to offset the 1,000,000,000's of web pages of testimonials that say you're a cult leader! Now go play with your toys. All 70% of them.

http://www.icochotnews.com/?q=node/62

(Discussion here and here)

ICOC on Wikipedia

2007-10-07T09:24:00.001-04:00

A simmering battle for control of the ICOC article on Wikipedia...

For the past year, there has been some rather vitriolic editing of the
Wikipedia article on the ICOC. On the ICOC side, a current member (and rather poor writer) from Europe, "Transylvanian Karl," (AKA Tranny K) displays those OCD control issues of Bible Talk leaders from back in the day (or not so back in the day). If you click the "Discussion" tab at the top of the article, you can access the Tranny's recent arguments in favor of his long-winded, tyrannical lists of churches and other edits. Those opposing him range from your typical not-so-anonymous ICC DF'ers to dedicated Wikipedia regulars who, in trying to bring the article to standard, had no idea what they were in for.

The version of the Wiki article so aggressively thrown up against the wall since 2006 by Tranny, was recently replaced (Aug 21 07) by a more impartial version written by "Xiaphias" - and now Tranny's accusing him of vandalism (although Tranny himself hijacked the article 1 year ago).

X. has requested mediation. Now THAT'S going to be interesting.

Check out the "History" tab to see various versions of article over the past year. (Wikipedia has a nice feature where you can also look at past versions of the discussion/talk page). Or see specific versions below.

Aug 21 2007 version by Xiaphias. Scroll down for the actual article.

How to become a cult leader

2007-03-16T14:30:00.000-04:00

Thanks Splash90 for the link...

----------------------

This video is AMAZING. It's like an old bad cheap 60s 'educational' film -- and it's hilarious. (after the one slightly gross part at the beginning).

There were soooo many parts of this video that were JUST like my experiences in the ICOC. Anybody who doubts that the ICOC is a cult just needs to watch this. If this doesn't convince them/you - nothing will!!!!

Video: How To Become A Cult Leader - A Real Video clip. Following the film’s expose of a fictional cult group called Emerge, it will vividly explain with relentlessly black humor how cults enslave and ensnare people through the most basic and the mundane of human existence.

Exercise

2007-02-28T14:18:00.000-05:00

An innocent discussion on health and exercise mentions a certain former WML and American Idol aspirant's boob job while working for the church, along with the usual rant about never having enough time to work out or do anything for your health while in the ICOC... but wasn't McKean a big "jock"? I guess only ministry people can take care of themselves, including their boob size!!

(also mentions the only weight-loss program that's ever worked for me, and we're not talking about Weigh Down...)

OK, now Kip's MOVING to LA.

2006-12-19T13:21:00.000-05:00

I agree ttk: "Time to pop the popcorn!"

per his sermon......leaving Steve in charge. Taking the Gonzalez(older and younger), DJ Comisford for now and then DJ will be going to NYC later in year. Taking Bordeleis(sp) and Underhills as shepherds.

Also sending teams to Brisbane and London in 2007.

ttk

Plus additional rumors on why Kip may have put Steve Johnson in charge of Portland.

just wondering....

I just read the DT letter and it refers to him without using his name..but being the only brother still with kipper. My personal opinion of sj is that he just went with kip to ease his conscience of the guilt. I know he was also really close to DA who just spoke against kipper. It makes me wonder what is going on behind the scenes with him. Is DA trying to talk some sense into him? Is it now just a matter of job security? or does he still believe it 100% and will die with the kipster? It would be interesting to see how it played out if even he turned away.

Ah, right. Kip's new LA church.

2006-10-19T14:50:00.000-04:00

Posted by Jim_P59. A call to protest ... but isn't that what Kip AKA I'm-the-Martin-Luther-King-of-Christianity, wants?

---
Finally de-lurking after GUEST-ing all these months, (BTW, I'm previously a member of the West Region---now out, thankfully...)

Just a thought...

In two days, Kip will be inaugurating his new...

"LOS ANGELES INTERNATIONAL CHRISTIAN CHURCH"

at the [snipped - see post link for details]

Speaking as an ex-member, I think Kip's got a lot of balls coming back here---seeing how I and thousands of others spent over a decade in debt.

Why?

Well, this was SUPPOSEDLY to "evangelize the world", and instead it went for things like Kip's kids top-of-the-line education---

--- the most expensive private school k-thru-12 X 3 kids

--- 2 4-year tuitions at Harvard

---- 4-year tuition to Stanford.

---- private tennis lessons, and air travel to countless out-of-town tournaments.

All of that totals OVER $1 MILLION DOLLARS!!!!!!!!!!!!

But that was okay-----Kip said---to blow church donations on that, because Kip's kids were going to lead the movement in the next generation (although how their "ministry future" justified the ultra-expensive tennis obsession for all three kids, I've never understood).

But no... NOW, all three spoiled brats have left "the ministry", and no longer practice any religion of any kind.

Oh, and one just got knocked up, and had a shotgun wedding.

Well, that was money well spent... NOT!!!

The Book of Timothy renders an opinion on any person whose grown kids turn out this way---

THAT PERSON AND HIS WIFE ARE NOT FIT FOR THE MINISTRY!!!!!!!!!

BE THERE, OR BE SQUARE!!!!

LA ICOC Publicly Marks Kip McKean

2006-10-19T12:06:00.000-04:00

Posted by WildJen. So what's next, Kip marks the LA ICOC?

http://www.laicc.net/content/churchletter.htm

'bout damn time.

Unity Plan - Over 70% of original ICOC unites

2006-09-19T22:41:00.000-04:00

For those of you who still give crap about all this, Disciples Today reported an updated list, which shows 70% of members from all the churches in the former-ICOCland are now officially a part of pseudo-ICOCland. Except Portland, of course. I love the title of this thread: The List, The List (again)

From Disciples Today:

"Bringing the total to 324, an additional 6 churches are the latest committing to the Plan for United Cooperation. This brings the total to over 70% of the disciples listed in our Church Locator. New to the list are 6 churches from Ghana, Jamaica, South Africa, Quebec and Idaho and Missouri in the US. See the list of committed churches below. Several other churches have announced their agreement in principle with the Unity Proposal but not wishing to commit at this time. Others are still considering it and others have decided not to sign..."

Here's a post that lists the pro-Kipper churches.

Olivia McKean Marries - Outside the church

2006-09-19T20:46:00.000-04:00

Ooooold news, but in case you cared, here's a link to the thread.
She married a tall Finnish guy - got married in Finland and now she's living there... far, far away from Portland. Good for her.

The rich "relatives" paying Mckean kids' Harvard tuition

2006-05-21T21:53:00.000-04:00

Posted by WildJen. The Stanbeck book description and review can be seen here.

As per another thread......here is a footnote from Foster Stanback's book INTO ALL NATIONS discussing who the "rich relatives" were......

Page 119 - footnote 21:

"The bill for the children's Ivy-League grooming ran into tens of thousands of dollars, which McKean solicited from wealthy members of the church. Although various individuals provided such support, some began to feel a considerable degree of cognitive dissonance at the idea of aiding McKean's children without giving equal consideration to other worthy candidates. In such cases McKean did not hesitate to challenge them to develop the conviction that helping his family was part of their God-given role. When his youngest son began struggling spiritually at his private school where he had no Christian friends, McKean solicited funds from a wealthy family to pay for a scholarship ($10,000 of a total of $16,000 tuition bill) so that another Christian teenager could attend the school as well. They boy's parents were asked to move an hour north to an affluent neighborhood in W. Los Angeles close to the school. The church hired the boy's mother as a ministry "intern" to help the family afford the increased living expenses. McKean regularly approached his wealthy patrons in the church for donations of thousands of dollars to cover tennis-related expenses, such as lessons, equipment, tournament fees, and travel costs. The children's Harvard tuition was pad for by a dot-com entrepreneur who struck it rich during the internet boom of the late 1990s."

Kip's new treasure chest

2006-05-12T19:44:00.000-04:00

Gotta love this new set of idealistic, young Kip-followers on Myspace groups.

ICC releases churches agreeing with "Unity Proposal"

2006-04-17T14:42:00.000-04:00

From Reveal: What's New

The ICC appointed 9 leaders as a subcommittee at the 2005 International Leadership Conference in Seattle to gather input for greater cooperation and unity within the ICC.

On March 11th, 2006, a subcommittee of leaders (namely: Mike Fontenot, (Elder/Evangelist, Hampton Roads, VA), Scott Green, (Evangelist, Seattle, WA), Philip Lam, (Evangelist, Hong Kong, China), John Louis, (Evangelist, Singapore), Sam Powell, (Elder/Evangelist, New York, NY}, Steve Staten, (Evangelist/Teacher, Chicago, IL), Mike Taliaferro, (Evangelist, San Antonio, TX), Bruce Williams, (Evangelist, Los Angeles, CA), and Andy Fleming, (Middle East Missions Evangelist/Teacher, LA, CA)) released a "Unity Proposal" (this was circulated to leaders on February 20th, 2006 as a draft).

Notable is that the ICC has tried to define something akin to a creed (at least a statement of common belief and organizational purpose). The document is roughly divided into: Introduction, Common Beliefs, Course Corrections (i.e., what needs to be done, or changes needed to be made, at this point), and Conclusion. The proposal suggests that churches would benefit from a greater independence and association, and "stay connected" to other churches through geographic regional administrators or representatives.

Subsequently, Disciples Today, an ICC website, is publishing a list various churches who are in agreement with this Unity Proposal.

An additional document, "Questions and Answers" to the Unity Proposal, was also released.

REVEAL has no official comment at this point in time in regard to the Unity Proposal.

Jenny Lynch, Gloria Keeney, and Rennie McGale, all long time members and former leaders in the ICC took some time to document the story of how Kip became the lead evangelist of the Portland Church of Christ. (Requires Adobe Acrobat reader.)

Letter from a Leader (2003)

2006-04-17T14:23:00.000-04:00

This is quite an old letter but it still applies today. See also the insightful reply below the letter.

Letter posted by RoseGvr.
Recent response (4/2006) by Chava123

As background in case you don't know me - I was baptized in XXX in
l9XX, moved to XXX on the mission team in XX, worked as a XXXX for XXX, then went into the ministry at XX years old. My husband and I married in XX, and we moved wherever we were asked (more times than I can count), and sold everything to move Overseas for XX years before returning to the U.S. and coming to back to U.S.

We resigned from the ministry after over many years. I felt so much pressure to produce numbers, look a certain way, dress a certain way, have a beautiful home, make the stage at church beautiful, have beautiful people singing on stage, etc. - in short, a lot of emphasis on all the wrong things, but I didn't realize it at the time.

Having been in the ministry for a long time, and now having worked in
secular jobs for over XX years, I feel I have a unique perspective. I had no idea while I was in the ministry how out of touch I was with what "real" or "normal" (for lack of a better word) lives were.

I don't think anyone who has been in the ministry for years, especially if they went into the ministry straight out of college and never worked, can really grasp this until you've experienced it. I cannot emphasize enough to not underestimate how difficult it is to change the way you have thought when you have been in the ministry for years & years.

I hadn't taught in the Sunday school program since l983, although I had counselled (and corrected and rebuked) people on their attitudes about teaching. I had no idea what it was like when Wednesday night classes ran late, and what it was like to try to pick up the pieces of 2 tired children on Thursday morning at 6:45 trying to get them to school.

After only my first week working at the Medical Center as a XX for 12 hour shifts, the realization hit me how demanding I had thought my schedule was when I was on staff - now every day was much more intense than that staff meeting Tuesday as I went to work, tried to cook dinner before I left in the morning, arranged childcare for my children, etc. I was used to always being right, always having my opinion be the right one, telling people what to do all day long, and thinking I always knew better.

After resigning, it was the best thing that ever happened to us to stay where we had led (not go somewhere else, and certainly not to go somewhere else and accept another ministry job! that certainly wouldn't fit the definition of resignation) and learn the MANY lessons that we needed to learn. It was humbling and difficult to be on the other side of the pulpit, but you get a different, and very valuable view from there.

It's hard to explain the mindset that occurs when you have been in the
ministry for a long time. I really thought that being in the ministry was the only thing worth doing, that only the "best" people could do it, and so I looked down on everyone else for not being "sharp" enough to be in the ministry.

I was used to always being right, making judgements about big, little and totally unimportant things and expecting the people around me to do things my way, always having people help me with my responsibilities in life, being able to delegate anything I didn't want to do, having babysitters always readily available, using people to get my goals accomplished and make me look good (although at the time I thought it was sincere and best for them), etc. The pride and arrogance were overwhelming.

It has taken years to understand that no one else in the church has this carte blanche lifestyle. (We could sure use some of those babysitters now!!)

Recently, a couple we are close to came to us asking for a short term loan to be able to buy their child glasses. The husband has a full time job and a masters degree and the wife works part time. It hit me this is how most of the middle class in the United States lives - one thing goes wrong (a broken transmission, needing new glasses, an unexpected medical bill) and you are unable to meet your financial obligations. When you're in the ministry, all of your needs are met: medical insurance (even co-pays), mileage allowances for travel, expense account allowances for housing and entertainment, and so you are shielded from this kind of financial pressure.

So we asked people to be sacrificial, when really we weren't experiencing any real kind of financial sacrifice ourselves, as all of our needs were always met.

Myself, as well as all of the "old-timers" who have been in the ministry for years, have built a crumbling mess. It has not been easy to "fix" me (especially my thinking) and even after 4 years out of the ministry, I'm still not "fixed" because I have been trained in elitism, arrogance, harshness, judgementalism, and pride.

I am extremely concerned about the rushing stampede to hire Sam Laing to come to Athens. It is obvious the many strengths that Sam and Geri have to offer - their marriage, family, counselling ability, etc. But, from my viewpoint after having been in the ministry for over 1/3 of my life, having had 32 years in the ministry is not a plus, but a serious minus.

I have nothing against Sam & Geri Laing, but I have seen the mindset, priviledges, lifestyle and thought process that a leader on his "level" or "tier" in the ICOC system has been steeped in. I also believe many of these mindsets will not even be obvious to Sam for a long time, because we have been thoroughly indoctrinated in that way of thinking.

I believe that Sam is sincere in wanting to repent and that the Triangle church in many ways wasn't as oppressive or controlling as some of the ICOC churches have been, yet it will take time, and many painful conversations, to learn a new way of thinking and dealing with people. Leaving a church after resigning to come somewhere else without staying and learning the lessons there is a red flag to me too. I don't even think it is possible to know what those lessons might even be except with the passing of time.

I haven't seen any evidence of repentance, or even openness, about finances or leaders lifestyles. And although it hasn't been said, I wonder if this rush to hire the Laings has a lot to do with when their severance package expires. I don't want the church to make any huge decisions rashly and without everyone feeling great about the decisions, especially because of money issues.

---
As someone stated above the identity of the person was not carefully concealed. I knew eactly who it was after reading the first paragraph. If you were in the Athens church there is only one person who this could be.

While her humility seems genuine and I agree with a lot of what she says I think you have to look at the actions of the person. This WML is acting as if she had a major revelation and is truly humbled and sorry for her actions. But you have to look at her actions now.

Many people in the church here have a lot of feelings about her and her husband because while other leaders stood and and apoligized to the entire congragation, they did not. They left the church and many people here believe they owe them an apology. True they were not in the ministry at the time, but they were for years. For years they had been part of the emotional abuse that went on in the church. Often they were the ones that were being abusive. They never apoligized. I worked under her for years and was victim to her abuse. I have seen her several times since she has left the church and never once has she offered an apology or expressed any regret.

So while the letter sounds nice. I would still say she doesn't get it. She has no idea. It's not enough to write an anonymous letter to a website and expect that to make it all right.

The Schedule from Hell, er, like Jesus' - Sincamper.com

2006-02-24T17:27:00.000-05:00

The best ICOC cartoonist by far, SinCamper, has revised his web site at www.sincamper.com. And OMG this one is f*g HILARIOUS..................

New Book on the ICOC

2006-02-24T16:07:00.000-05:00

Awesome Families: The Promise of Healing Relationships in the International Churches of Christ

Kathleen Jenkins, an associate professor of Sociology at William & Mary wrote and conducted research for this book while her family members were part of the ICOC. Hilarious chapter title: "It's Like Free Counseling all the Time." Reminds me of the book some of us wanted to write - "It changed my life - Again!!!!" Even better is the final chapter: "The Kingdom that Promised Too Much." Too true.

Jenkins' book can be purchased at Rutgers Press or Amazon.

From Rutgers Press web site
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Description:
Denounced by some as a dangerous cult and lauded by others as a miraculous faith community, the International Churches of Christ was a conservative evangelical Christian movement that grew rapidly in the 1980s and 1990s.

Among its followers, promises to heal family relationships were central to the group's appeal. Members credit the church for helping them develop so-called "awesome families"-successful marriages and satisfying relationships with children, family of origin, and new church "brothers and sisters." The church engaged an elaborate array of services, including round-the-clock counseling, childcare, and Christian dating networks-all of which were said to lead to fulfilling relationships and exciting sex lives. Before the unified movement's demise in 2003-2004, the lure of blissful family-life led more than 100,000 individuals worldwide to be baptized into the church.

In Awesome Families, Kathleen Jenkins draws on four years of ethnographic research to explain how and why so many individuals-primarily from middle- to upper-middle-class backgrounds-were attracted to this religious group that was founded on principles of enforced community, explicit authoritative relationships, and therapeutic ideals. Weaving classical and contemporary social theory, she argues that members were commonly attracted to the structure and practice of family relationships advocated by the church, especially in the context of contemporary society where gender roles and family responsibilities are often ambiguous.

Tracing the rise and fall of this fast-growing religious movement, this timely study adds to our understanding of modern society and offers insight to the difficulties that revivalist movements have in sustaining growth.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Table of Contents:
Contents
Acknowledgments
Introduction: "It's Like Free Counseling all the Time"
Chapter One: Sacred Counsel: "Ambassadors for God"
Chapter Two: An Unsinkable Raft in a Foreboding Divorce Culture
Chapter Three: Collective Performances of Healing
Chapter Four: In With the Old and the New
Chapter Five: Awesome Kids
Chapter Six: Gendered Brothers and Sisters for the Kingdom
Chapter Seven: The Kingdom that Promised Too Much
Notes
Bibliography
Index

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Praise for Awesome Families
"A masterful work. This book is a must-read. It artfully weaves engaging ethnography with social theory to take the reader on a learning adventure. Through this study of family life, gender relations, and culture in a fast-rising and then falling 'therapeutic religious movement,' we learn about life in the modern world. Given that the conditions that led to this movement's appeal and growth remain, similar groups will continue to appear. As they do, we will want to turn to Awesome Families to understand their meaning."-Michael O. Emerson, author of Divided by Faith: Evangelical Religion and the Problem of Race in America

The Story Behind Kip's Take-Over of Portland

2006-02-24T15:51:00.000-05:00

See the story behind Kip's takeover of Portland. PDF document at www.icocnews.com, written and signed by insiders.

Approaching the 3rd Anniversary of HKL

2006-01-27T13:47:00.000-05:00

All, join hands in prayer...

Scientology

2006-01-19T16:11:00.001-05:00

There are some crazy stories on the internet of experiences by Scientology members that remind me of the ICOC, too.

Posted on ICC DF by Water00boy.

Scientology vs. ICOC: As if there were any doubt, this article regarding Tom Cruise and his participation in Scientology rings unervingly close to certain practices foisted upon members by the good ol' ICOC.

You're Still Going ?!

2006-01-16T21:24:00.000-05:00

Steve and Lisa Johnson Join Kip in Portland

2006-01-16T20:39:00.000-05:00

“I am a part of the fellowship of the Unashamed. I have the Holy Spirit power. The die has been cast. I have stepped over the line. The decision has been made. I am a disciple of Jesus Christ. I won't look back, let up, slow down, back away or be still. My past is redeemed, my present makes sense and my future is secure. I am finished and done with low living, sight walking, small planning, smooth knees, colorless dreams, tame visions, mundane talking, chintzy giving and dwarfed goals."

Read the rest of Steve's schizophrenic babble at the Portland web site. Kip, ho!

ICOC Online Dating (NYC)

2006-01-09T08:59:00.000-05:00

If you want to hook up with some hot brother or sister (not in the "worldly" way, of couuuuuurse....) check ICOC Matchpoint out. No login required!

Special Missions a Scam: Straight from the Horse's mouth

2005-11-15T19:48:00.000-05:00

From WildJen on ICCDF.

Here it is, folks, straight from the horse's mouth. Andy Fleming, current administrator of Middle East World Sector, and member of the board of other ICOC corporations, admits that SMC funds in the past were considered "unrestricted" funds (although they were advertised as being for the specific purpose of missions). Fleming says that as much as 50% was funneled off to meet LOCAL administrative overhead in US Churches.

"The Middle East World Sector has provided financial information from 1995 forward and subsequently Andy Fleming, who currently oversees those funds, came and met with the Board to respond to our questions. In the course of reviewing this financial information and meeting with Andy we learned that between 1995 and 2002 monies sent to the Middle East World Sector were "Unrestricted" and only 50-55% was actually directly supporting foreign missions. In a letter from Andy to the San Diego Church of Christ dated October 29, 2005 he explains how the funds were used."

More analysis to follow. See his admission letter, along with documentation here.

http://www.icocinvestigation.com/mews.htm

ICC DIVIDES: CORE SEPARATES FROM MCKEAN FACTION!

2005-11-04T11:37:00.000-05:00

From RightCyberUp.org

ICC Divides: Core Separating from McKean Faction
Revised: November 3, 2005

"We believe that you began your new movement with 'The Portland Story' article calling out 'the remnant' to follow you." -- Statement by 84 leaders of the International Churches of Christ withdrawing fellowship from Kip McKean.

A split appears inevitable, as a core group of International Church of Christ congregations has severed ties with ICC founder Kip McKean of the Portland (Oregon) International Church of Christ. It seems likely that a faction of churches affiliated with McKean and Portland will continue to divide from the core churches.

A November 2nd statement from 84 ICC church leaders announced that they would have "no further fellowship" with McKean unless he repented of "character sins" and "divisive tactics." The statement accused McKean of "dividing disciples and churches around the world," of "building a kingdom for yourself" and of telling a "self-advancing" revisionist history of the movement. The statement asserted, "We believe that you began your new movement with 'The Portland Story' article calling out 'the remnant' to follow you."

On October 3rd, a warning letter signed by 63 key ICC men’s leaders had been sent to Kip McKean, asking him to repent of his continued leadership sins and to stop the “self promotion and propaganda” coming from Portland. The Portland Church leadership (including McKean) responded with a letter on its website, defending its leader and methods and stating the intention to work toward similar goals as the core churches, “as in Acts 15, Paul and Barnabas going their separate directions.”

Although the core group has expressed concern about the methods and sincerity of McKean, and McKean has expressed concern about the “lukewarmness” of the core churches, the split in many ways appears to be a turf battle. McKean has begun recruiting members away from the core, and has supported church “replantings” (i.e. competing churches) in core cities, as part of a systematic and centrally controlled plan to evangelize the world.

Supporting McKean according to a Portland-run website (1) as of October 6 were:

The Portland Church of Christ leadership and congregation

the Greater Baltimore Church of Christ led by Doug Arthur

the Savannah Church of Christ (Georgia) led by Steve Johnson, who has announced his intention to go with McKean

the Central New York Church of Christ (upstate) led by Chris Broom

the Montreal Church of Christ led by Danny Brisebois, and the Quebec City Church of Christ

the Salt Lake Christian Church led by Jay Hernandez

the Santiago, Chile church led by Raul Moreno

the Eugene International Church of Christ

The November and October letters to Kip McKean were signed by many prominent ICC leaders with long associations with McKean, including four former World Sector Leaders (Al Baird, Andy Flemming, Marty Fuqua & Scott Green); the former head of the ICC's book publishing service, DPI (Tom Jones); the former head of the ICC's media service, Kingdom News Network (Roger Lamb, who was McKean’s co-minister in Charleston, IL in the 1970s); and the man who originally invited McKean to the Crossroads Church of Christ in 1972 (Sam Laing).

These letters followed a month after letters from three prominent ICC churches (among others) opposed McKean: the Boston Church of Christ, the Seattle Church of Christ, and the Phoenix Valley Church of Christ.

Letter from a Concerned Relative

Recently RightCyberUp received an interesting letter from the concerned relative of a current ICC member. He couldn’t help but notice the irony and hypocrisy of core ICC churches shunning Kip McKean in their initial October 3rd letter. Although this site usually doesn’t publish letters, this one deserves an exception:

Today I read the letter of rebuke written to Kip McKean. I suppose my focus should have been on Kip and the many infractions which called the letter into existence. And, I suppose the indignation arising in my heart should have been directed exclusively at this unscrupulous and arrogant man. At first that was the case. At first I was focused on Kip and my indignation was directed at this man exclusively. But as I read further something very interesting happened. I started feeling sympathy for Kip and my indignation was redirected toward those writing the letter and the institution which they were representing. I couldn't help but recall the words from Galations 6:7, "Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap." As I read further, I began to sense that Kip is simply being true to what the system of the ICOC has made him. The system sowed arrogance by claiming it holds all the truth and every other "church" has no truth at all. The system sowed divisiveness when it taught its incoming disciples that everything their parents taught them regarding Christ is false and so is everything that their former religious organization taught. The system sowed the principles of unethical recruitment when it encouraged their evangelists to take members away from local denominational and non-denominational churches.

And because the system sowed this stuff, they are now reaping it. But they do not like what they are reaping. They want to deal out this high pressure arrogant spirituality; but when the tables turn, they don't want to be on the receiving end of it. It is my sense that those writing this letter are brow beating a man for being exactly what they taught him to be. They are reaping in the behavior of this man exacting what they sowed in recruiting him. How could they expect anything else. To me, it is an ironic twist; but I sense they simply don't get it. Was it not Jesus who once said: "If the blind lead the blind, they both will fall into the ditch”? That is my perception of what is happening. All of Kip's infractions notwithstanding, I have more feelings for him than I do for those indicting him. Am I wrong for feeling this way?

Lest we give the wrong impression or risk getting misquoted, let’s be clear: we believe Kip McKean fits all the criteria of a cult leader and is a dangerous man. But we also have many concerns about the core ICC churches, their leadership, and the damage that can be inflicted on members and communities -- just as we have concerns about the congregations aligned with McKean.

Sources:
Brothers' Statement to Kip McKean, November 2, 2005.
Letter to Kip McKean from various Elders & Evangelists, October 3, 2005.
Portland International Church of Christ Leadership, "Concern For All The Churches," portlandchurch.org, circa October 14, 2005.

(1) Information compiled from list of affiliated churches on upsidedown21.org, October 6, 2005.

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Also from RightCyberUp.org:

ICC CHURCHES OPPOSE MCKEAN
Responding to ICC founder Kip McKean's "calling out of the remnant" from ICC churches, leaders of ICC's Boston, Seattle and Phoenix churches issued letters two months ago stating opposition to McKean's actions. You can read about them here:
http://rightcyberup.org/links/oppose.htm

I'LL FOLLOW KIP, SAYS JOHNSON
Former ICC World Sector Leader says he'll go with his mentor, McKean, in the current split:
http://rightcyberup.org/links/johnson.htm

KRIETE STANDS BY LETTER, SAYS ICC WAS A CULT
Two-and-a-half years after his "Honest to God" letter rocked the ICC, former ICC evangelist Henry Kriete stood by Honest to God in a follow up letter he wrote to Chicago Church of Christ elder Steve Staten. The only difference, he writes, is that his convictions have become stronger. Read more here:
http://rightcyberup.org/links/kriete2.htm

INSIDE THE ICC'S 20TH ANNIVERSARY MAGAZIINE
Henry Kriete says this 1999 issue of the movement's official newsletter shows the ICC was a cult. Readers can judge for themselves:
http://rightcyberup.org/links/lastory.htm

CONCERNS ABOUT TODAY'S ICC LEADERSHIP CULTURE
This article examines how today's ICC leadership culture endangers the movement's chances for healthy reform. Based on observations from the ICC's Seattle Leadership Conference and recent events, this new article says the ICC leadership's biggest probem is its own culture, not anything happening in Portland:
http://rightcyberup.org/links/culture.htm

WHAT IS MCKEANISM?
Kip McKean's teaching legacy decoded:
http://rightcyberup.org/links/mckeanism.htm

[Discussion with 2corinthians518.blogspot.com]
DISCUSSION BLOG WITH CURRENT MEMBER
A current member of a McKean-affiliated church posted this email discussion RightCyberUp.org had to a blog. It sounds like we came away disagreeing about just how dangerous Kip McKean is, but agreeing on several other things:
http://2corinthians518.blogspot.com/2005/10/e-mail-discussion.html

Pelham case - amended

2005-11-01T22:17:00.000-05:00

The motion to dismiss was withdrawn! Check out the details. Posted by WildJen on ICCDF.

The Pelhams' have amended their original complaint.

Also posted are documents that were to be considered in the hearing that was scheduled for Friday.

The hearing scheduled for Friday has been cancelled because the defendants have withdrawn their motion to dismiss.

http://www.icocinvestigation.com/nashville.htm

Conference Schmonference

2005-10-12T22:22:00.000-04:00

My response to Kip

2005-10-10T08:39:00.000-04:00

(To Kip's comparison of himself as the adulterous woman)

Yeah, you're like the adultress alright.You sure have screwed a lot of people!

Some perspective

2005-10-10T08:35:00.000-04:00

Remember, this is what they trained people to be like.

Brother's Letter to Kip

2005-10-10T08:25:00.000-04:00

The divisions continue. The blind accusing the blind.

Posted by sickid on ICCDF.

Letter http://www.usd21.org/1.0/media/kipfinal2.html

Kip's (Portland Elder's) brief response, with more to come:
http://www.usd21.org/1.0/index.php?langID=1&artID=56

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Date: October 3, 2005

To our dear brother Kip,
Brother, we thank God for our relationships with you as brothers in Christ. Some of us fondly remember over 30 years ago when we all became totally committed followers of Jesus as college students at the University of Florida. Others of us deeply love you for your calling us to be disciples of Jesus and to his mission of world evangelism. All of us are grateful to God for how he used you to help lead the unification of brothers and sisters from all parts of the restoration movement to build a movement that took the gospel around the world in such a short time. Your personal love for the lost and vision for us challenge us to obey the Word of God. Your convictions about discipleship, as well as your zeal and faith, have all been incredibly inspirational to us. We pray that the many ways God has used our love for him -- sacrifices, willingness to go anywhere, do anything and give up everything in numerous places around the globe -- have encouraged you.

We also thank God for the discipline and the grace that he has brought on our movement, showing us to be children he cares for. All of us have shared in the mountaintop experiences that have spread to all continents of souls being baptized into Christ through faith, churches being planted and relationships multiplying. We have also shared in the maturing hand of God showing us our mistakes and failures. We have all been humbled by God and are glad that we were able to confess our sins together and apologize to each other and to the people that we lead. Confession brings healing. Repentance brings a time of refreshing that only God can give (Acts 3:19). .

It has been a joy and a maturing experience to grow up in God's family together. Because of the depth of spiritual family relationships that we share and the way God has connected us as "supporting ligaments" in the body of Christ, we are writing this letter to you today.

God has used you in powerful ways to seek and save the lost and to plant churches around the world. He has given you an unusual mixture of talents that we admire. For those we are forever grateful. Those victories for God that you have led us to should always be to his glory and should never be disrespected or discarded

God has also disciplined you. As you have often said, God works his will through people. Disciples have made Jesus Lord and Savior, and have learned to speak the truth in love to confront sin out of concern for souls and for the body of Christ. After numerous personal conversations, discipleship groups, prayers and pleadings confronting you with the leadership sins in your life over a number of years, you resigned as the Lead Evangelist of the Los Angeles Church of Christ in November 2001. After more pleading and prayers, you resigned as Missions Evangelist and recognized leader for the International Churches of Christ in November 2002. We wept at your confession and were eagerly looking forward to your repentance. We were very hopeful in the Spirit that your repentance would produce "a harvest of righteousness 2nd peace." Yet, at the 2004 International Leadership Conference in Chicago, several brothers had to meet with you once again to ask you to repent of your arrogance and attitude towards other Christians. Recently, because of your unrepentant heart and actions, several churches have publicly rebuked and warned you about your divisiveness. You were also recently removed from the program of the 2005 International Leadership Conference and were removed from the planning group for next year's conference for being divisive. You responded by mocking these rebukes in your sermons and articles and by using your time at the 2005 ILC to recruit people to Portland and to your side. You have already begun to start your churches in other cities, not by evangelism, but by causing factions from existing churches. The Phoenix Valley Church elders have invoked God's Scriptures TO protect their flock from you (Acts 20:25-30). How can this be a repentance of YOUR continued sins of leadership?

You have consistently refused to repent of these sins when confronted. Because we love God first, we love you. We are more than willing to imitate Jesus in you. In the following areas we do not see Jesus and cannot imitate these things. Remember your leaders, who spoke the word of God to you. Consider the outcome of their way of life and imitate their faith. Hebrews 13:7 We have often imitated your faith and are grateful. We have also considered the outcome of your way of life and we must confront you with your life.

Brother, we are writing this letter today because over a number of years leading up to and since your resignations, we have spoken privately and in groups with you about our concern that you have shown worldly sorrow and not godly sorrow. Many of us have spoken with you urgently in recent weeks because, instead of true repentance producing a harvest of righteousness and peace, your lack of repentance is producing a harvest of unrighteousness, dissension, confusion and division. You have refused to listen to us individually, so we came in love as groups of brothers in accord with the principle of Matthew 18. You have consistently said that you repented and changed and yet you have continued in the very behavior you claimed you repented of. In fact, you have worn many of us out in our confrontation of your sins. You have rationalized your sins by pointing to your baptisms and church growth. Those are evidences of the grace of God with those new Christians. Paul himself pointed out that people who are preaching the gospel out of envy, rivalry and selfish ambition can still help people become Christians (Philippians 1: 15- 18). The Scriptures are clear as to our responsibility to you and to the people of God. It is very sad to us that though you are a hero in the faith to us in many ways, you have not matured spiritually.

"If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.' If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector." Matthew 18:15-17
Many of us signing this letter have confronted you personally and in groups with your sin over a number of years. We are now bringing other brothers who have also signed this letter as witnesses of your sins. They are in agreement with this call to repentance.

Following are sins that you have publicly and in print claimed that you repented of -- something we have all so much wanted to believe.

You confessed all of these sins in Revolution Through Restoration Part 3, pages 4-7. (2003). You have confessed them in bulletin articles and in sermons. You were confronted with your lack of repentance in a meeting with several of us at the Chicago International Leadership Conference in September of 2004. Yet you continue to consistently live in these sins. Through the private communication of this letter, we are asking you one more time to have godly sorrow and to show your repentance by your deeds. If you do not listen and do not show godly sorrow, then you give us no choice but to take your continued sins to our family of churches around the world in the hopes that you will listen to them and repent of these sins.

1. Pride, Arrogance and Anger:

"During the sabbatical, God taught me to take full responsibility for my leadership in the kingdom, the decisions of the World Sector Leaders and for the spiritual condition of each person in my family. My sins are clear and grievous. I have been arrogant, almost always thinking I was right. I did not listen. I did not actively seek discipling for me and my family. I was only partially open and deceit came into my life. This led to the sin of anger towards those who disagreed with me. Too often, I viewed these individuals as critical. I did not draw people out. I built an atmosphere in which people were afraid to speak up. There were times when I corrected people that I was mean, cruel and I even humiliated them. I was too controlling. For this l apologize. I am truly sorry."

"Ultimately, my most devastating sin was claiming God's victory as mine. In pride, I boasted in "my" accomplishments. I allowed people to give me glory; I did not refocus them to God."

Brother, we are glad you have acknowledged these sins, but we do not see change in you beyond mere surface changes to satisfy people for the moment. We would also add that you not only allow people to give you the glory, you encourage it and reward them for it as in the most recent Portland Jubilee.

You have said publicly that you repented of your arrogance. At the Portland Church Builder Conference, shortly after you said you had repented of your arrogance and pride, you said, "I can fix any church." When you were recently asked privately if you were willing to be a team player with other brothers in cooperative leadership, your response was, "You don't understand. I am the star."

Your writing, your sermons and your website consistently contain unseemly, immature and unwholesome self-promotion and propaganda. It took multiple conversations from many of us before you ever commended any church but your own. You say publicly that you have repented of lifting yourself up, yet almost every bulletin article is about you and your ministry. Your entire view of our fellowship centers around who is with you and who is against you. This is unrighteous, unspiritual, immature and even irrational.

2. Disrespect, Gossip, Slander and Condemnation Towards Churches and Disciples

In Boston the Gempels and Bairds helped us build "family" in the church. However, gradually, in the LA years, my constant short-term growth goals created pressure on the ministry staff that translated to hurtful pressure on members. When combined with a legalistic mindset, disciples were made to feel they could never measure up, too often wondering if they were fruitful or even saved. This robbed them of their joy as disciples. In seeing the need to build a model church, I wrongly compelled far too many good leaders and other disciples from numerous congregations to move to LA. The problem was exacerbated because I did not communicate my gratitude to these other churches, and then I expected them to duplicate our efforts after taking some of their most effective soul winners. For this I am deeply sorry. (From Revolution Through Restoration 3, page 7)

Many of us have confronted you with the numerous ways you continue to slander and hurt the churches you helped build. You admittedly compelled them to give millions of dollars and hundreds of Bible Talk Leaders to fulfill noble dreams and then turned around and condemned those churches for not growing like your church did with their resources. This alone was incredulous. For the last two years, you have been confronted with your continued disrespectful writings about other churches, many of whom are hurting precisely because of the results of many of the sins you confessed. Yet you continue to judge and condemn disciples and churches because they are not like your church. It is difficult to imagine how a humble and contrite leader could possibly write the condemning and disparaging words that you have written. You have become like the father who continually exasperates his children and then condemns them for not wanting a relationship with him.

Brother, for years we have appealed to you to be more careful about your tongue. Yet you admittedly continue to publish statements about churches based on one-sided conversations and hearsay. You are careless with the truth. You are reckless with words. You use what you hear to promote a point of view you want to believe - that our family of churches cannot succeed without your personal leadership. You continually talk about the reports you hear from people in other churches who are hurting. Yet we never hear about your calling the church in that city to even verify the information or to inquire about the person who was calling. (See #3 below.) Despite being admonished to the contrary on many occasions, you do not seek "both sides of the story" regarding these churches and their lasting relationships (Proverbs 18:17).

It is obvious to most that you praise those who are clearly aligned with you or others whom you are trying to persuade to your position. You have praised small churches that have joined themselves with you and emphasized their few baptisms, but fail to mention the churches that have continued to be planted in the last few years or other churches who are growing and baptizing (examples like the church in Nairobi, Kenya that have had 182 baptisms in the first eight months of 2005). As well as the need for repentance and healing in many of our churches, many good news reports and a deep desire for unity were broadly acknowledged by the 800 attendees to the 2005 ILC. This has been your persistent behavior for as long as we have known you

3. Ungodly Ethics

Recently you were confronted with involving yourself in other churches while disrespecting the existing relationships of those churches. Two examples are the churches in Montreal, Canada and in Santiago, Chile. Your response was, "I would rather ask for forgiveness than permission." We renounce this ethic as ungodly and a deliberate sin. It is the epitome of the thinking that says, "The end justifies the means." If Jesus had thought this way, he would never have been able to be our Savior. We cannot believe the apostles or early church leaders lived or led in such a political, unethical way.

You give deceitful impressions. You are not willing to be discipled by any other peer or group of peers. You continue to give the deceitful impression that you are being discipled and have strong and respected men in your life; you publish names of people you are supposedly accountable to. But we all know that you have not demonstrated a consistent humility toward any brother who has been in your life for a long time and who knows your sins. Again, this deception is another example of ungodly ethics.

4. Hatred, Discord, Jealousy, Selfish Ambition, Dissensions, Factions and Envy (Galatians 5:19-21)

For years, while many aspects of your leadership have been admirable, a well-known part of your leadership has been to pit people against each other competitively and to discredit others who might rival you for people's loyalty. This is sinful.

You have admitted to these sins in the past. You have reaped the fruit of these sins. Yet, when asked what your ideas are for unifying us once again and helping our churches to heal, mature and return to our mission, your answer is to go back and do what you did in the 1980s. You are in fact attempting to do just that. If you continue on this course, you will build some churches. And you will reap the same short-term attractive results and the same long-term painful results. You must repent and learn how to work with other leaders in true adult to adult relationships. You are no longer a young man with lack of experience for an excuse.

In your private conversations, in your public proclamations and on your new website conceived to carry your message, you continue to lift yourself up (Proverbs 27:2) and to cause division. No commendable person in the Bible talks about himself as much as you do. Even as recently as the 2005 International Leadership Conference in Seattle, you spent much of your time trying to draw people to you and turn them against their existing relationships. In your Portland Story article printed on August 21,2005, you said,

However, as of this Jubilee the Portland leadership believes it is time for a progressive "calling-out of the remnant of disciples" from dying, former ICOC Churches. For years, I have preached "one church-one city;" in other words, each city should have only one church of disciples, because if they are faithful to God, He will multiply them to evangelize not only their city but the whole region. (Acts 19:8-10) I still believe in this same principle. Sadly, it has become the practice of some former ICOC churches to break-up into geographic groups or groups of various convictions about commitment to Christ, discipling and church government. If a group asks for help to restore the foundation of sold-out disciples, we will help in any way we can. Biblically, disciples can never rebel against authority, yet as seen with David who "chose" to transfer his allegiance from the ungodly Saul to the uncircumcised Achish (1 Samuel 27: 1-4) one is "free to choose" whom to submit to!

In the fall the Portland leadership will begin to seek out church leaderships in congregations that are struggling to ask if we can help them build a foundation of sold-out disciples. If they are not inclined to receive help, then we will offer help to any group that would prefer to be in a new congregation composed of only sold-out disciples. To the casual observer, this may look like "two churches in one city." Yet, in time it will be obvious who has God's approval

In actuality, there are many churches around the world that are more mature, and are providing an overall more mature and spiritual example than the Portland Church. There are also churches who are devastated. Many churches are helping these hurting churches, but you consistently fail to recognize this because they have not directly aligned themselves with you or asked you for help.

Brother, we hope and believe that you would be the first to vehemently oppose the arrogance and 'divisiveness in these comments if they were from anyone else but yourself. You have made known to the world your disregard for anyone's ability to help any other church except yourself. Most mature people who have known you the best over the last 20 to 30 years are the ones who have lost confidence in your spiritual life. Instead of accepting the reasons they give for their lack of confidence (your unrepented sins), you instead turn it around on them, blame them and trust your own analysis. (Proverbs 14: 12)

You have never built a large church without pulling people from other churches. In your personal ministries, the fires exposed that much of them was built with wood, hay and straw instead of gold and silver (1 Corinthians 3: 12-15). The firestorm that went through our churches in the last few years has revealed what was built well and what was destroyed. Your calls for unity are only sounded when they lead to loyalty to you. Now you have twisted an obscure Scripture to call for disloyalty and rebellion in churches that are healing and are trying to rebuild. This is immature, immoral and unrighteous.

Biblically, disciples can never rebel against authority, yet as seen with David who "chose" to transfer his allegiance from the ungodly Saul to the uncircumcised Achish. (1 Samuel 27:l-4) One is "free to choose" whom to submit to!
(From The Portland Story,August 21, 2005)

It does not take a prophet to know that many of our churches have been hurting. And yet, many are either on the road to recovery and revival or desire to be. Others have given up on basic biblical teaching, and certainly need to be helped to get back to the Scriptures. But we do not believe that they represent the majority. We are devoted to building up the churches, serving them and calling them to following Jesus. We are committed to the Lordship of Jesus, to helping our churches mature spiritually and to evangelizing the world in cooperation with each other. However, we must also do what we can to protect them from your ungodly and divisive intentions which you have made clear in The Portland Story, in your refusal to retract the article and in your actions since the article.

The Phoenix Valley Church leadership has called the disciples there to recommit their lives to God and to the church by asking them to sign letters of commitment. Yet you and your members have recently initiated the beginning of a new church in Phoenix and have called members of the Phoenix church in an attempt to pull them away into this new church. If you were "making every
effort to keep the unity of the spirit" (Ephesians 4:3), you would not do this. If you were not intending to divide, you would not do this. Your actions and your words demonstrate that your intention is to draw people to yourself. (Acts 20:30) God's Word commands us to be faithful to our duties as evangelists and shepherds of God's flock. And you have often challenged evangelists and elders to obey God's Word and protect the flock. Sadly, even though God has used you in tremendous ways through the years, we refuse to sentimentally let you distort the Word of God. We must be faithful to our charge without favoritism.

In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, I give you this charge: Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage with great patience and careful instruction. For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. But you, keep your head in all situations, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties of your ministry. 2 Timothy 4:1-5

Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood. I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them. So be on your guard! Remember that for three years I never stopped warning each of you night and day with tears. Acts 20:28-31

I Charge you, in the sight of God and Christ Jesus and the elect angels, to keep these instructions without partiality, and to do nothing out of favoritism. 1 Timothy 5:21

The Elders of the Phoenix Church have opposed you with these very Scriptures that you have advocated for years. (See the Phoenix Church website.)

We must protect those who are drawn to your great qualities and are naive as to your unrepented sins. You are confusing and exploiting many who are young, as well as those who are unaware of your past sins. Many disciples have no knowledge of the depth of the impact of your sins because we chose to confront you privately about these things and have chosen not to share these things publicly. Although in most of these conversations you were defensive and prideful, time was given for you to have a change of heart and a godly sorrow (2 Corinthians 7: 11-ff). At other times, you would apologize and promise change, only to blatantly commit the same sins again and again. You have been confronted privately many times by many different people. As a group, we have now reached a conviction that more than enough time has passed for you to repent. If you do not repent and confess your sins immediately, we must tell those who are unaware in order to protect them from your sins. May you heed the words of Jesus himself:

At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, "Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?" He called a little child and had him stand among them. And he said: "I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. And whoever welcomes a little child like this in my name welcomes me. 'But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to sin! Such things must come, but woe to the man through whom they come! . . . See that you do not look down on one of these little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven. Matthew 18:l-7, 10

5. Worldly Sorrow

We understand that you have endured much sorrow. For the times you have endured sorrow for righteousness, we admire you. However, we call you to get rid of your bitterness, resentment and self-pity (Ephesians 4:31). We admonish you to repent of worldly sorrow. As your brothers and friends, we beg you to repent by your making your godly sorrow undeniably clear.

Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death. See what this godly sorrow has produced in you: what earnestness, what eagerness to clear yourselves, what indignation, what alarm, what longing, what concern, what readiness to see justice done. At every point you have proved yourselves to be innocent in this matter. 2 Corinthians 7:10-11

We rejoice that you are zealous for souls. Sadly, we also find you to continue to be zealous for your opinions and your own leadership, and stubbornly set on your selfish ambition. In direct contradiction to this passage, we rather continue to see in you:

Short-lived sincerity, great eagerness to defend yourself, indignation at others instead of at your own sin, alarm at the condition of the church but little concern for your own arrogance, concern for others as long as they suit your plans, and blaming your discipline and your bitterness on other people. At nearly every point you have proved yourself to be unrepentant in these matters.

You have often taught and expected others to show godly sorrow. You teach that whole churches can repent quickly, but how can you demand repentance from other churches when you yourself do not repent for years?

The good-hearted early disciples demonstrated godly sorrow.

When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, "Brothers, what shall we do?" Acts 2:36
First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds. Acts 26:20

We challenge you to make your life match your teaching and your doctrine. Because we have had so many conversations with you about these things over many, many years, and so that you clearly know there is a way for you to repent, we challenge you to repent in these specific ways:

Print, publicly apologize for and stop:

Your continued pride, arrogance and anger.
Your selfish ambition, seeking to be first and continually drawing attention to yourself in your sermons, your publications and your conversations.
Judging and condemning other churches. As pointed out in the Seattle letter to you, the slander towards the New York City Church was never repented of. Numerous other examples litter your writings and speeches.
Blaming other people for many of the problems you helped author that are making many of our churches weak.
Causing division among faithful Christians by "calling out the remnant" and starting churches where there are existing churches of disciples.
Recruiting people to move to Portland and dividing people from their church families in order to start new congregations in the same city.
Blaming other people for the problems in your own family.
The immoral ethics of sinning deliberately now and asking for forgiveness later.

Take these steps to turn around and guard your heart for the future:
Identify a group of five of your lifelong peers who have confronted you on your sin and whom you are willing to submit to for discipling your life, your heart and your ministry.
Use your website to promote all people, churches and messages that are biblical and that are advancing the gospel in any way.
Build your ministry through planting and watering in your own city. Renounce recruiting and playing politics with the ministry.
Regularly invite into your ministry mature brothers who know you well, will speak the truth in love and who are committed to brotherhood unity, biblical doctrine and to evangelism.
Publish a statement with the approval of the five brothers in your peer discipling group (see # 1) affirming:
Your repentance and godly sorrow
Your commitment to cooperate with other churches who have the same convictions without your claiming a leadership role and without your having to dominate others.
Your commitment to each of the above on this repentance list.
Reconcile with the churches you have offended.

We are praying for you not to give in to Satan's temptation to respond to this rebuke with worldly sorrow. By our experience with you in the past many years, if you are unrepentant, you will do the following:
Be indignant that we would correct you because of all you have done for God and for us. We appeal to you to hear that we would not go to this length if we did not love you. And we appeal to you to not hate correction. He who heeds discipline shows the way to life, but whoever ignores correction leads others astray. Proverbs 10:17
Play the martyr. Please do not demean the cross of Jesus by portraying yourself as being crucified. You are being rebuked as God directs us to. You charged many of us with being evangelists who were willing to preach the Word without favoritism. We have all been rebuked and challenged to repent. We must expect the same mature repentance from you. See to it, brothers, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. Hebrews 3:12
Blame this rebuke on us, Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? Galatians 4:16
Plan a strategic, political, response to our rebuke. We have no interest in politics. We are only interested in upholding God's honor, in your soul and the souls of those affected by your sins. Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice. Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you. Ephesians 4:29-32.
Use this rebuke to further divide churches and cause divisions, factions and dissensions that result in more followers for you.
Ignore our rebuke and call for us to repent, thus throwing the issues back on us.
Completely ignore our call to repentance.

Our Motivation

We want to clearly state our motivation. You are not our enemy. You are our brother.

(Ephesians 6:12)
We are concerned first for your soul. What we have learned from God , , and the Scriptures leads us to love you enough to call you to repentance for your sake.
We are concerned for your family. We pray for all your children to return to God. We know that your own spiritual life is a great key to that.
We are concerned for those faithful people in our churches who are strong. We are concerned that they know the truth so you will not be a stumbling block to them as you have been to many before.
We are concerned for those who are weak. You said you repented of your lack of concern for them. We beg you to prove it by your deeds.
We are concerned for the churches you will build in the future. If you sow the same seeds, you will reap the same problems (Galatians 6:7-8). If you build with the same hay and straw, another fire will burn it up in the future.
Forgiveness

For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins. Matthew 6:14,15

All who are signing this letter have already forgiven you in our hearts. Our only expectation is repentance on your part. We stand ready to continually repent on our part.

Our Convictions:

So that you will clearly understand and so that you will not misrepresent us, we state our belief in the following convictions and are diligently and vigorously working to disciple them into our own churches. We don't want Satan to tempt you or your people to think that a lack of conviction motivates this reproof. We fervently believe in:

The Father, Son and Holy Spirit
Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life, our Lord and Savior
The Bible is the Word of God and is the authority for our life.
Jesus called all men to become his disciples, be baptized into his body and to be taught to obey.
Every disciple is to be totally committed to God, His Kingdom and to Jesus as Lord and Savior.
Every disciple is called to participate in the Great Commission of Jesus
Every disciple is called to obey the one another passages of Scripture.
Every disciple is called to maintain the Spirit of unity in the bond of peace.
Every disciple is called to follow the Greatest Commandment: Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength and your neighbor as yourself.

We commit to do everything in our power that is godly to help unify our churches, to mature them and to reach the world with the gospel.

We would love to do this together with you. Please humble yourself, repent and join us.

Love in Christ always,

Javier Amaya Los Angeles USA
Ed Bahula Toronto Canada
Al Baird Los Angeles USA
Martin Bentley Orlando USA & South America
Tom Brown Los Angeles USA
Ron Brumley Seattle USA
John Brush South Florida USA
John Causey Los Angeles USA
Jeff Chacon San Diego USA
Steve Chin Taipei Taiwan
Duncan Comrie Johannesburg S. Africa
Malcolm Cox London England
Brian Felushko Vancouver Canada
Thierry Fender Geneva Switzerland
Gordon Ferguson Phoenix USA
Mike Fontenot Virginia Beach USA
Andy Fleming Los Angeles USA
Herve Fleurant Denver USA
Blaise Feumba Abidjan Ivory Coast & West Africa
Marty Fuqua Los Angeles USA
Anthony Galang Los Angeles USA
Scott Green Seattle USA
Kevin Holland Los Angeles USA
Bill Hooper Dallas USA
Douglas Jacoby Atlanta USA
Jake Jensen Los Angeles USA
Tom Jones Nashville USA
Jay Kelly Seattle USA
Sam Laing Athens USA
Philip Lam Hong Kong China
Roger Lamb Chicago USA
Cesar Lopez Manila Philippines
John Louis Singapore Singapore & SE Asia
John Lusk St. Louis USA
Michael Luzine Toronto Canada
Kevin Mains Los Angeles USA
Gregg Marutzky Denver USA
Chip Mitchell Boston USA
Steve Mukenya Nairobi Africa
Reese Neyland Los Angeles USA
Daren Overstreet Seattle USA
John Porter Miami USA
Sam Powell New York City USA
Chris Reed Denver USA
Justin Renton Cape Town S. Africa
John Reus South Florida USA & South America
Kevin Robbins Toronto Canada
Mike Rock Los Angeles USA
Steve Saindon Minneapolis USA
Charlie Sawyer Kansas City USA
Wyndham Shaw Boston USA
Tony Singh Chicago USA
Rob Skinner Ashland, Oregon USA
Steve Staten Chicago USA
Jerry Sugarman Los Angeles USA
Peti Szabad Budapest Hungary
Greg Tacher Seattle USA
MikeTaliaferro San Antonio USA
Marty Udall Toronto Canada
Mike Vassallo Melbourne Australia
Bruce Williams Los Angeles USA
Tomm Wilson Chicago USA

---
Kip's Response

Urgent Concern
John 8:3-9 The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?” They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him. But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her. Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground. At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there.
This past week Kip McKean received a letter that was signed by many brothers in our fellowship. Due to its length and scope, as well as the seriousness of the accusations, each Portland House Church Leader, Staff Member and Elder-In-Training will review the document and pray to God for humility and wisdom as we determine how to respond. The letter was prefaced by a request to reply within three days. In order to satisfy that deadline, we will take time to pray for a biblical, godly, and righteous response as opposed to a reactionary or retalitorial one. We are grateful for how God has blessed our ministry and for all the sacrificial ways that Kip and Elena has served our congregation. Our ultimate goal is to honor God and to please Him.

At this point we will post this critical letter on both of our websites for three reasons; First, to inform others, Secondly, because it has already been sent to most recognized and regarded evangelists worldwide, and three due to the fact that we were informed it would be posted on “Disciples Today” by Friday.

As soon as feasible, a more thorough response will be written and posted. Please consider what has been written and pray for us and the McKeans.

In Humility,
Bob Bertalot and Tony Untalan
Elders in Training

And, the Unity Group Invites Proposals

2005-10-09T01:17:00.001-04:00

The insanity continues.

Posted by WildJen on ICCDF.

An Invitation to Submit Proposals for Unity and Cooperation
Brotherhood Cooperation Proposal Group

October 2, 2005

Dear Brothers and Sisters,

We are grateful to God for all he has done among our family of churches called The International Churches of Christ. He has redeemed us by the blood of Christ, built churches on every continent, disciplined us as his sons and daughters and now is preparing a harvest of righteousness and truth. The opportunities ahead are staggering.

From the firestorm we have experienced together, we have all been refocused on the foundation of our churches which is -- Jesus Christ. We have also been given greater insight into which parts of our ministries were being built with “gold, silver and costly stones” and which were being built with “wood, hay or straw.” As a fellowship of churches we again have the opportunity to do what many Christian groups would long for – to recommit ourselves to the ideal of searching out the Scriptures for biblical principles and working together to humbly and prayerfully become the unified, caring body of Christ that God wants us to be – and to redefine their identity and connection in a prayerful, humble, collaborative and unifying manner.

During the International Leadership Conference in Seattle, it was evident that the Spirit of God was producing a growing desire for greater cooperation and unity among our fellowship of churches as a greater number of leaders were made more aware of the spiritual and financial toll that some of our churches have paid because of a breakdown of either unity, connection, or organization in different parts of our fellowship of churches. Out of a desire to help meet those and other needs, as described in more detail in the above excerpt from the announcement that first appeared on www.DisciplesToday.net, it was thought best to solicit and gather proposals from as many as possible. We have been asked to facilitate this process. Although we all know that there are many others who are equally (or more) qualified, we humbly accept this opportunity to serve the Body of Christ through our family of churches.

Purpose: The Holy Spirit created a unity among us through our repentance and baptism into the body of Christ, the forgiveness of our sins, the gift of the Holy Spirit and our mission as disciples of Christ. The challenge given to us in Scripture is to “Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace.” (Ephesians 4:3) How we make every effort is where the proposals come in. Many of us see a need for greater unity and connections between congregations and leaderships of churches. We are eager to hear from those who have specific proposals.

Submitting Proposals: Our first goal is to make sure that every part of our brotherhood is invited to submit proposals for cooperation.

While we will certainly review proposals submitted by individuals, in order to make this project manageable, we ask that individuals first consider working in groups to allow the Spirit to work through each of you and to present us with your collective wisdom. “Many advisers make victory sure.” (Proverbs 11:14) Many of us are already traveling to, calling, speaking with and listening to various segments of our churches to make sure that the next month will be a fruitful writing and discussion period. We want everyone in our family of churches to have the opportunity to contribute to this process. Please forward this notice to others.

Scope of Proposals: The scope of these proposals is to offer a practical, godly way for our churches to cooperate in a unified manner to glorify God and accomplish his will. The most important issue is that we develop a clearly identified way to cooperate in a global manner to proclaim the gospel of Christ while respecting the local church.

Please feel free to address whatever part of our brotherhood cooperation and identity that you are most concerned with. Some of the areas that others have expressed a desire to address: simple statement of beliefs, mission plantings and funding, reconciliation and conflict resolution, continued training and shepherding of evangelists, elders, missionaries, and planted churches, unified beliefs, advice for hurting or weak churches, developing standards for administration, helping churches without ministers and ministers without churches, joint efforts with our youth, campus, singles, helping the poor, leadership development, etc. You may have a proposal that would address one or many of these areas.

We want to be clear to those who have trouble with writing, especially among to those outside of America – even brief emails and bullet points, no matter how coarse, are welcome. If you are limited by technology or language, please send your proposal on paper to any one of us and we will do our best to bring your thoughts as input into the process. Or send your proposal to: Steve Staten 655 W. Grand Avenue Suite 220 Elmhurst, Illinois 60126

We are not suggesting that the proposal that will be submitted by us to the churches by February 1, 2006 will be intended to solve every major challenge facing our churches. However, it is our prayer that God will help us suggest a proposal that will strengthen us locally and globally and enable us to more effectively accomplish God’s purposes throughout the world. The great diversity among us is a gift from God. When each part of our fellowship of churches works in unison and harmony, God will be glorified as souls are saved, healed and matured. (1 Corinthians 12, Ephesians 4)

Process: We request that all proposals be sent by November 1, 2005 to: unity@chnts.net. We will prayerfully review all proposals, synthesize the best ideas from them, and by February 1, 2006, submit a recommended proposal for brotherhood consideration to our family of churches.

Maintaining Connection
We ask all willing and able disciples to pray and fast with us on November 1, 2005 for the Spirit’s guidance and wisdom. We ask that you continue to pray that the Spirit will work together through us so that the resulting proposal by February 1, 2006 is fruitful in answering the main questions as to how we will connect and cooperate maintaining the Spirit’s unity in the future. We are committed to using the Bible as our standard and guide. The New Testament reveals churches sharing their correspondence (Colossians 4:16, Revelation 1-3), working together to solve an inter-congregational problem (Acts 15:1-4), financially supporting missionaries and mission work (Philippians 4:14-18), cooperating in helping the poor saints in Judea (2 Corinthians 8:16-21), etc. Although many of our congregations currently enjoy association with other sister congregations through cooperative mission efforts, historical ties and geographic proximity, there unfortunately remain others that feel isolated and unsupported or unsure as to how to proceed into the future. Let us consider how to help all parts of our family.

The recent Seattle conference revealed the sincere, widespread desire for togetherness and cooperation in our fellowship. There was a desire in the fellowship for new visions and improved plans to help our lost world receive the salvation of Jesus Christ. Truly God has blessed our family of churches to now be composed of mature churches, young adult and very young churches. As we let our Heavenly Father lead this family, the overall mood of our fellowship indicates that the vast majority of our churches desire unity, cooperation, coordination while renouncing selfish ambition and competition.

Updates
All proposals should be sent to unity@chnts.net by November 1, 2005. Watch www.DisciplesToday.net for updates from this proposal group. We solicit your prayers.

In Christ’s service,

Andy Fleming
Mike Fontenot
Scott Green
Philip Lam
John Louis
Sam Powell
Steve Staten
Mike Taliaferro
Bruce Williams

2005 Brotherhood Cooperation Proposal Group Announcement Excerpt
(Click here to read the full announcement previously published.)

Background
For many months, numerous brothers from our family of churches around the world have expressed a desire for a greater brotherhood cooperation to meet the needs of the disciples, the lost and the poor.

Following discussions with and recommendations from several church leaders around the world and sensing the opportunity for cooperation at the 2005 International Leadership Conference in Seattle, the elders and regional evangelists of the Los Angeles Church introduced a proposal a few weeks ago that included an appeal for brotherhood unity and revival. In the days that followed, it became obvious that additional time would enable more churches to prayerfully consider this initiative and furnish additional input and even other proposals. Therefore, at the beginning of the International Leadership Conference, the Los Angeles brothers recommended that their proposal be a part of a wider plan to solicit other proposals and asked the many churches who had agreed to the original initiative, or had expressed strong interest in it, to extend patience in favor of this broader plan to solicit additional proposals from all parts of our fellowship for consideration.

Selection
Since we have no worldwide representative group in place, this idea was presented in Seattle to the planning group for the next International Leadership Conference. The idea seemed good to the 33 brothers who were from most geographical areas of the world. After some discussion and much prayer, 9 brothers were selected to serve on a group to gather input for a brotherhood cooperation proposal. These men were selected by the simple qualifications of: servants who were full of the Spirit and wisdom (Acts 6:3); who hold the deep truths of the faith (1 Timothy 3:9); have been tested and proven faithful (1 Timothy 3:10); are advocates of a cooperative effort (Ephesians 4:1-3); have no selfish ambition (James 3:13-16); have gifts needed for this task (1 Corinthians 12, Romans 12); desire to serve in this group; and have global relationships (2 Timothy 3:10)

The 33 worldwide conference planning members spent a night in prayer and then selected the following brothers by secret ballot, commending them to the fellowship to serve as the Cooperation Proposal Group:

Andy Fleming, Missions Evangelist, Middle East and Eurasia
Mike Fontenot, Evangelist and Elder, Hampton Roads, Virginia
Scott Green, Evangelist, Seattle, Washington
Philip Lam, Evangelist, Hong Kong, China
John Louis, Evangelist, Singapore, Southeast Asia
Sam Powell, Evangelist and Elder, New York, New York
Steve Staten, Evangelist and Teacher, Chicago, Illinois
Mike Taliaferro, Evangelist, San Antonio, Texas and Africa
Bruce Williams, Evangelist and Elder, Los Angeles, California

Kip's Official List

2005-10-09T01:12:00.000-04:00

Posted by WildJen on ICCDF.

Didn't take 'em long before they started their own list of churches.
---------------------------

Here is a list of our affiliated churches:
Salt Lake Christian Church
Savannah Church of Christ
Central New York Church of Christ
Greater Baltimore Church of Christ
Église du Christ de Montréal
Eugene International Church of Christ
Santiago Church of Christ, Chile
Quebec City Church of Christ, Quebec Canada

IS IT IN YOU? Life changing! Spirit lifting! Fun! Exciting!

2005-10-03T14:15:00.000-04:00

The New York City Church of Christ asks their singles:

IS IT IN YOU?

I'm sure some of those women leading the seminars wish it was...

Response to Pelham Case

2005-09-30T19:48:00.000-04:00

See the discussion here.

Breaking Away Again... But Expecting Different Results?

2005-09-27T13:34:00.000-04:00

Kip's Pawns

2005-09-27T13:25:00.000-04:00

Post by lulu1971/Laura on ICCDF.

List of ICOC Leaders aligned with Kip McKean
(also at kipmckean.com)

The following list has been compiled by reading through Kip's articles and the Portland website.

All of the people listed below have met with Kip in some capacity during the last 2 years. Kip has mentioned their names in sermons and articles. Some have also traveled to Portland to meet with Kip and preach to the church there.

The importance for a watch-list should be obvious, the more leaders Kip meets with the easier to see which churches in the ICOC will be reconstructed and/or considered still part of the ICOC.

Should any of these leaders wish to be removed from this list, please send us an email stating your reasons why you should be removed. These responses will be posted for public inspection.

webmaster@kipmckean.com

The opinions expressed on this page are those of the webmaster, and should be viewed as commentary.

Watch-List

Guillermo Adame, San Diego
Ben Arcellana
Phil Arsenault, Boston
Doug & Joyce Arthur, Baltimore
Wil & Rose Ashley, LA
Al & Gloria Baird, LA
Martin & Carmen Bentley, Orlando
Cory Blackwell, Atlanta
Hugh Borthwick
Danny & Gillianne Brisebois, Montreal
Chris Broom, Syracuse
Tom & Kelly Brown, LA
Ron Brumley, Seattle
John Causey, LA
Steve Chin
Dr. Ron Clark (From The Mainline Churches Of Christ)
Dessa & Brian Craig
Marc-Andre & Virginia Delalay, Montreal
Ron & Lavonia Drabot of Charlotte
Mike Fontenot, Virginia Beach
Marty Fuqua, LA
Anthony Galang, LA
Peter & Laura Garcia, LA
Scott & Lynne Green, Seattle
Bob & Pat Gempel, Philadelphia
Michael Hart, Curacao Island of the Caribbean
Dave & Angela Hooper
Lowell Hoover, Worcester, Massachusetts
Tim & Julie Huffman, Houston
Steve & Lisa Johnson, Savannah
Tim Kernan, Montreal
Frank & Erica Kim, Denver
Valdur & Irene Koha, Boston
Sam & Geri Laing, Athens, GA
Roger Lamb, Chicago
Cesar Lopez, Manila, Philippines
John Louis, Singapore
Kevin Mains, LA
Greg & Cathy Marutzki, Dallas/Ft Worth
Chip Mitchell, Boston
Raul & Lynda Moreno, Santiago, Chile
Ghislain & Debbie Normand, Quebec City
Dan & Susan Norman of SLC
Josue & Veronica Ortega, Mexico
Mike Patterson, Atlanta
Dave Peickert
JP & Karla Perkins, LA
John Porter, Greenville
Christian Ray
Darryl Reed, DC
Randy Scott
Sebastian Serra
Joe & Annie Silipo
Tony Singh, Chicago
Rob & Pam Skinner, Ashland, OR
Steve Staten, Chicago
Mike & Anne-Brigette Taliaferro, San Antonio
Mark Templer, New Delhi India
Salvador & Patricia Velazco, LA
Derick Vett
Bruce & Robin Williams, LA

Kip officially marked by Phoenix

2005-09-25T13:18:00.000-04:00

Phoenix web site

Response to the Starting of a New Church in Phoenix
PVCC Elders and Ministry Staff - Sunday, September 25, 2005

Dear Brothers and Sisters of the Phoenix Valley Church of Christ,

As most of you know, the elders and ministry staff recently felt compelled to address Kip McKean's article, The Portland Story, along with certain practices of Kip and other members of the Portland church. We quoted a paragraph of this article to help you see what our concerns were about Kip's teaching. In brief, his comments have been disrespectful of other leaders and other churches, and as such, clearly divisive in their effects. The practices we objected to concern efforts to recruit members from other churches, noting that such efforts had already involved members of the Phoenix church. On that issue, we called upon Kip and Portland members to cease and desist these disturbing efforts.

Our hopes and prayers were that changes would be prompted by our letter and by similar letters from other churches. However, such has not been the case. Kip and Portland members have contacted members here in recruiting efforts since our warning letter. Further, even after our letter was issued, one of our own house church leader couples, Chris & Sonia Chloupek, continued having conversations with Kip and other Portland members. This past weekend, they visited the Portland church and had meetings with Kip and other leaders there. They returned to Phoenix with the intent to begin a new church associated with Kip and the Portland church. Since returning, they have been attempting to recruit members from all parts of our church to join them, in a very blatant manner. Let it be noted that the Fergusons met with the Chloupeks before and after their Portland trip, and others friends also have tried to dissuade them, but to no avail. Two passages in the New Testament are particularly applicable to this situation:

Acts 20:28-31 -- "Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood. I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them. So be on your guard!"

Romans 16:17-18 -- "I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them. For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naive people."

To further clarify the significance of these divisive actions, we will address two items from Kip's article and respond biblically to these false teachings:

1) He used an example from 1 Samuel 27 to justify people "choosing" the leader to whom they will give allegiance. When anyone has to resort to using a remote passage from the Old Testament to justify behaviors of those under the authority of the New Testament, it should be immediately obvious that a weak point is being made. To use the example of David fleeing from Saul, who was trying to kill him, as a justification for someone today not submitting to their God-ordained leaders in a church is an obvious misuse (and abuse) of the Scripture. The NT is clear about elders having the responsibility to oversee and protect the church. Read the following passages carefully:

"Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood" -- Acts 20:28

"The elders who direct the affairs of the church well are worthy of double honor, especially those whose work is preaching and teaching." -- 1 Timothy 5:17

"Obey your leaders and submit to their authority. They keep watch over you as men who must give an account. Obey them so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no advantage to you." -- Hebrews 13:17

"To the elders among you, I appeal as a fellow elder, a witness of Christ's sufferings and one who also will share in the glory to be revealed: Be shepherds of God's flock that is under your care, serving as overseers--not because you must, but because you are willing, as God wants you to be; not greedy for money, but eager to serve." -- 1 Peter 5:1-2

2) Kip is quite clear about his "one church in one city" doctrine. In light of his strong statements regarding one true church per city, his support of starting another church here must mean that he no longer considers us to be a valid church. In spite of the serious and multiple problems of the church at Corinth, they were still addressed by an inspired apostle as "the church of God in Corinth" (1 Corinthians 1:2). Kip's doctrine means that the Phoenix Valley church has fallen out of this status, and must be replaced by a true "church of God." It is very significant that the NT has absolutely no example of any disciple anywhere being told to leave one church and go to another, or to start another church. In the letters to the Seven Churches of Asia (Revelation 2 & 3) we find both condemnations & commendations of these churches. The worst of the seven churches was Sardis, with no commendations at all, and although they had only a few members who were righteous, these were simply told to keep being righteous, not to leave or start another church. This was in spite of the fact that the other churches were located nearby (all in one section of Asia Minor), and both the Smyrna and Philadelphia churches had nothing but commendations given by Jesus. That example is remarkably different from Kip's assertions and practices.

Not only can you not find a biblical example of starting a new (second) church in a city, this is tantamount to dividing the church ? an action strongly denounced in the NT. The first four chapters of 1 Corinthians deal with the sin of division. Consider carefully the following words:

"I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought. My brothers, some from Chloe's household have informed me that there are quarrels among you. What I mean is this: One of you says, "I follow Paul"; another, "I follow Apollos"; another, "I follow Cephas"; still another, "I follow Christ." Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized into the name of Paul?" -- 1 Corinthians 1:10-13

"Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit lives in you? If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him; for God's temple is sacred, and you are that temple." -- 1 Corinthians 3:16-17

"Now, brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, "Do not go beyond what is written." Then you will not take pride in one man over against another." -- 1 Corinthians 4:6

The fact that Kip is appealing for people to align with him should sound a loud warning that something is terribly wrong biblically. Paul refused to be a part of such; Kip not only embraces it; he all but demands it. Galatians 4:17 puts it succinctly: "Those people are zealous to win you over, but for no good. What they want is to alienate you from us, so that you may be zealous for them."

In view of the current actions of the Chloupeks, Kip and the Portland church, we as your leaders urge you to obey Paul's admonitions quoted above from Romans 16:17: "Keep away from them." Any fellowship or contact should be totally discontinued as of today. We are saddened to bring this matter before you, but we are totally resolved to biblically deal with divisiveness and unbiblical teachings that affect our members. Thank you for your understanding and cooperation.

With our love,

Your Elders and Ministry Staff

Who's with who?

2005-09-17T14:23:00.000-04:00

Who's with Kip? Who's with LA? Who cares?

ICOCNews created a map of various large churches' positions, according to these criteria: 1) Kip McKean 2) LA 3) Autonomous.

In any case, it's simpler to look at the Rejecters - here's an overview, based on letters from individual church web sites.

ANTI-Kip's call: LA, Boston, Seattle, Phoenix, Orlando, St. Louis, San Diego
ANTI-LA call to Unity: Atlanta, Vancouver, Orlando, St. Louis, San Diego
ANTI-both calls: Orlando, St. Louis, San Diego

If you have ideas on where your church or other churches stand, particularly New York City, Washington DC, San Francisco, Chicago, Miami, Triangle, etc. feel free to comment. I also suggest looking under the ICC DF's "Current Leadership Writings" for posts on different cities' responses to these developments.

Boston Rebukes Kip (will he get marked?)

2005-08-29T14:52:00.000-04:00

Boston elders address the actions of Kip McKean.

August 28, 2005

The elders are saddened but compelled to address a disturbing development from the recent conference held by the Portland, Oregon, Church of Christ. We the leadership of the Boston Church have grave concerns about our brother Kip McKean's actions. While we love the man and are thankful for good he has done, we cannot be silent in the face of recent events.

As a result of Kip's divisive behavior, conversations and writings, he was warned last year at the Chicago leadership conference by a group of mature elders and evangelists. Kip committed to changes, but his actions indicate that he is not serious about working respectfully together with others. Most recently, he preached and distributed an article and posted the same on the Portland church Web site. The article in effect calls on churches to either agree to accept Portland's direction or to realize that Kip and others from Portland will call out members from these churches to join with them. Kip's actions are divisive and arrogant and must be opposed.

In light of 3 John 9-10 and Kip's conversations privately and publicly, it is clear to us that he is guilty of the sins and character of Diotrephes. He seeks to be first, he maliciously gossips about brothers and churches, and is calling for a plan that intrinsically sets up refusal to welcome brothers who do not agree with his church building approach. He opposes those who would welcome those "he" cannot call true disciples.

In light of Titus 3: 9-11 he is clearly divisive, not avoiding foolish controversy but deliberately stirring it up. With verse 11 in mind, we are adding our voice to that of others recommending his removal from the leadership conference in Seattle in September.

We are further calling on Kip to repent of this destructive attitude and behavior and to understand that the continuation of such will mean that we will have no fellowship with him. In light of the conversation last fall in Chicago, we would consider this a second warning. We would urge you to pray for Kip and for his repentance. We urge you to have nothing to do with efforts that claim to advance God's work, but are in fact, dividing God's people. We are committed to Jesus' message and the Great Commission. We commend you to love one another (John 13:34-35), seek to be united (Phil 2:1-2) and diligently and effectively take the good news to the world around us. In doing these things you will do that which will most effectively silence divisive talk

There are many, who hold to the truth of the Scriptures and are committed to Jesus as Lord and the mission of winning as many as possible. It is a time to be uniting not dividing. We do not intend to be a church centered on a reaction to Kip or anyone else, but a church focused on building up the Body of Christ and making more disciples. We are aiming for the healthy growth of this church and are continuing to work to that end. We sought input from leaders in other churches such as Seattle and Los Angeles this year and look forward to such continued exchanges. However we will not tolerate authoritarian leadership methods or intimidation to motivate our progress but rather will listen to the Spirit, the Word of God and godly men or women who demonstrate a Christ-like spirit and mutual respect as we mature together as disciples of Christ

The elders of the Boston Church

LA ICOC's Call to Revival (following, ahem, Kip's)

2005-08-28T20:11:00.000-04:00

From Discipleox on the ICCDF. Click to enter the post and read the PDF.

Please find attached a document from the LA leadership addressed to "All fellow churches around the world." It is a call to re-unify the ICOC into a new denomination.

If you are in an ICOC church you should immediately get this before your leadership and have a serious godly and Biblical discussion about the direction of your church and not wait until the decision is made for you. Many things are going down behind the scenes.

May God bless your efforts.

Kip - he's Baaack! (Or he's trying)

2005-08-26T16:53:00.000-04:00

Read below... by Didymus on ICCDF.

I just finished reading Kip’s article in the new Portland flyer that was handed out at the recent conference. Henry Kreite is roundly condemned, and described as now nothing more than a minister “to a tiny mainline Church of Christ”.

Also of note, I’ll quote: “In the fall the Portland leadership will begin to seek out church leaderships in congregations that are struggling to ask if we can help them build a foundation of sold-out disciples. If they are not inclined to receive help, then we will offer help to any group that would prefer to be in a new congregation composed of only sold-out disciples. To the casual observer, this may look like “two churches in one city.” Yet, in time it will be obvious who has God’s approval.”

My translation: “Dear leaders, submit to Kip now or we will begin the process of taking your congregation away from you from the inside. We will do what’s needed to split your congregation and we will declare you cursed by God for it. We hope you enjoy Kip’s ‘exciting Episode 2!’ coming soon to city near you.”

EDIT: For those of you new to this thread here is a link to the Flyer.

The Three Factions

2005-08-03T15:15:00.000-04:00

Chris Lee wrote an interesting supposition about the various viewpoints that ICOC or former ICOC churches have on REVEAL.

REVEAL article on the Three Factions

The Tenneseean Article on Anti-ICOC Lawsuit

2005-07-20T22:00:00.000-04:00

Here is a link to the actual article and ICCDF discussion thread:

The Nashville Church forces members to donate, suit says

The thread on ICCDF, "Lawsuit filed in Nashville"

And for all my ICOC member fans, courtesy of Sincamper:

ICOC Investigation

2005-07-19T22:00:00.000-04:00

It's been a long while since I've posted, but there have been a few promising developments.

There is talk on the ICC DF about Jack and Kay Pelham's lawsuit against the Nashville church. I mentioned Jack Pelham's efforts to put together a lawsuit on October 11, 2004. (Good luck Jack! You'll need it.) I strongly recommend checking out the ICOC Investigation site for details. Great info there!

ICOC 2004 Stats available

2005-02-08T13:53:00.000-05:00

Ready for you to slice and dice.

http://www.icocinfo.org/stats.html

These stats are not official, but the numbers are quite interesting.

If you happen to know where to find NYC COC stats broken down by borough, let us know by using the Comment link on the left.

ICOC Breaking Session: Audio w/Transcript

2005-01-12T13:13:00.000-05:00

From Zzzeta (Ian) on NYCOC. Transcript available - click on the title above.

I've just made soundfiles available online, which feature Al Baird and his cronies in the act of conducting a vicious breaking session against Dusty Wakefield, a former member.

To download the files, you need to install the Ares filesharing software from http://www.sofotex.com/Ares-download_L5779.html - it's not illegal to own this software or to download files with the owner's permission.

When you have the Ares client running, conduct a search for Audio files entitled "Dusty Wakefield"; there are three of them in all.

Don't try this if you only have a 56K dialup connection.

Ian.

Article by Richard Lloyd Measures

2004-12-28T18:18:00.000-05:00

Posted by WildJen on ICCDF.

I just ran across this interesting article.....Has anybody else read this article or know who Richard Lloyd Measures is?

http://www.somis.org/HH.html

Several interesting topics include:

*
"...In 1985, Chuck Lucas was dismissed from the Crossroads Church of Christ after a number of young men in the discipling movement admitted that they had been having sex with him."
*
"...After McKean became minister, roughly half of the old congregation walked out. However, due to McKean's charisma, infectious zeal, oratory skill, Elena, Lucas' plan, and intense recruitment by McKean's dedicated followers, the congregation grew phenomenally. "

Sound familiar?
*
"...Bauer left the movement after he discovered that McKean had revised the history of the movement and diverted $3.1 million in 'special contribution' funds into a numbered bank account in a foreign country."

Here is the section of the article that pertains to the ICOC...

>>>....In the late 1960s and early 1970s, Chuck Lucas, a young, charismatic preacher, formulated the plan for a new discipling movement. The plan was based on the principles laid down by Nee and Coleman. Some elements were similar to techniques used by the Church of Scientology™, multi-level marketing scams, Jehovah's Witnesses, the National Socialist German Workers' Party, the Moonies, and Est. Elements of Lucas' plan were:

* True salvation can only be obtained through the discipling movement -- i.e., everyone who is not in the discipling movement is going to spend eternity burning in the fires of Hell..
* Intense one-on-one discipler/disciple relationships, sleep deprivation, sugar/stick, and food deprivation -- i.e., proven mind-control techniques.
* Strict and absolutely unquestioning adherence to Lucas' interpretation of selected passages in the New International Version (NIV) translation of the Bible.
* Remarkably warm reception for prospective members.
* Sleep-deprivation.
* Use of "love bombing" -- a technique perfected by the "Moonies"-- the Unification Church of Reverend Moon.
* Alienation of the family.
* Replacement of the family with a new family -- the discipling movement.
* Replacement of longtime friends with warm new, 'instant' friends.
* Recurrent use of the threat of Hell to keep members in line. Members are frequently warned that leaving the discipling movement is the same as leaving God.
* Disciples encouraged to mimic the speech and mannerisms of their superiors.
* Promotion of the concept that the discipling movement has been entrusted by God with saving the world in this generation.

Social control maintained by:

* Censorship and self-censorship;
* Loaded language -- the sect develops its own lexicon of buzz words;
* Proscription of outside information and other sources of thought-stimulation;
* A repressive shunning/disfellowshipping policy;
* Periodic tell-all sessions with disciplers, coupled with meticulous record keeping of tell-all sessions -- the so-called 'sin list' which, according to an ex-member of the church hierarchy (Richard Bauer) is kept in a central computer;
* Frequent rebuking to keep members off-balance;

Briefly, this is how it all works: Prospective members are bowled over by the intense aura of love and enthusiasm presented by the group. However, prospective members are not aware that the sect conducts acting classes. I have seen such people in action and some of them are extremely good at what they do. New members are kept so busy that they have essentially no time for old friends and family. Old friends are slowly displaced by the new instant-friends in the sect. Eventually, all of one's 'friends' belong to the sect. From this point on, leaving the sect becomes extremely difficult. . . The hook is set.

In the beginning, Lucas' discipling movement was affiliated with the mainline Churches of Christ. In 1967, Chuck Lucas joined the 14th Street Church of Christ in Gainesville, Florida. Lucas succeeding in making discipling part of church policy. Thanks to Lucas and his plan, the church experienced a phenomenal growth rate that attracted widespread attention. When the 14th Street Church of Christ built a new building, the name was changed to Crossroads Church of Christ. The discipling movement came to be known as the Crossroads Movement and Crossroadsism. Lucas sent teams to spread discipling movement techniques to other mainline Church of Christ congregations. It was during this phase that Lucas recruited Thomas 'Kip' McKean from the University of Florida at Gainesville. Lucas baptised McKean in 1972. Lucas was McKean's discipler.

McKean is a gifted, charismatic orator and the son of a U. S. Navy admiral. McKean attempted to take over congregations in other cities. McKean's agenda was somewhat less than well received. In a letter from one congregation, the following appears:

"... Brother McKean has brought unbiblical practices, peculiar language, and subtle, deceitful doctrines to Charleston from the Crossroads Church at Gainesville, Florida."

In 1979, at the age of 25, McKean was invited to become the minister of the mainline Church of Christ congregation in Lexington, Massachusetts. The congregation was in decline. Kip, his wife Elena, and his followers joined the Lexington congregation. 'Christianity' would never be the same. After McKean became minister, roughly half of the old congregation walked out. However, due to McKean's charisma, infectious zeal, oratory skill, Elena, Lucas' plan, and intense recruitment by McKean's dedicated followers, the congregation grew phenomenally. The congregation outgrew its quarters and started meeting in nearby Boston. The name of the congregation was changed to Boston Church of Christ [BCC]. Thanks to McKean, the network of discipling churches that Lucas started went international. Examples are the Tokyo Church of Christ, London Church of Christ, Toronto Church of Christ, et cetera.

In 1985, Chuck Lucas was dismissed from the Crossroads Church of Christ after a number of young men in the discipling movement admitted that they had been having sex with him. Lucas moved to Thomasville, Georgia and began preaching at another church. With Lucas out of the way, Kip McKean took firm control of the discipling movement. He began a purge to entrench his control. The key people in the movement that Lucas had discipled were steadily replaced with people McKean had discipled. However, Chuck Lucas mysteriously remained on the BCC payroll for years -- even though he was no longer connected with the discipling movement.

Perhaps the most curious things about McKean's takeover was baptism nullification. Sins which had previously been absolutely washed away by baptism, were now outstanding. This meant those who had been assured they were Heaven-bound were instead headed on a one-way trip to the eternal fires of Hell. Thus, those who had been baptized in the Lucas-era had to be rebaptized in the McKean-era. If you guessed that McKean was an exception, congratulations. The Crossroads Movement was now the Boston Movement.

Mainline Churches of Christ are autonomous. Each church is controlled by a council of elders. At Crossroads, Lucas was booted out by a vote of the church elders. In the Boston Movement, there is a council of elders -- but they do not vote independently. The only vote that counts is McKean's. There is no system of checks and balances. Due to disagreement with McKean's spin on interpretation of scriptures, the de facto non-voting status of elders in his church, and McKean's dependence on using established mind-control techniques, the mainline Churches of Christ began disassociating themselves from the discipling movement in 1987. On 19 June 1988, based on a decision by its elders, the Crossroads Church of Christ publicly distanced itself from the Boston Movement.

Just as Lucas recruited McKean, new members in the Boston Movement are typically recruited from college campuses. This is not a coincidence. The movement's shtik is designed to take advantage of the fact that college students are often recently separated from their families. This makes them vulnerable to the group's love bombing and instant friends ploys. Due to numerous complaints of harassment of students and use of deceptive practices, ICoC recruiters have been banned from a number of college campuses in the U.S. and in the United Kingdom. Newspapers and magazines picked up on this and articles began appearing which detailed the deceptions and high pressure tactics the Boston Movement uses. Subsequently, ABC's 20/20 produced a segment which used videotape evidence to prove that Al Baird, a member of the Boston Movement elite, was less than truthful about the practices of the organization. McKean counterattacked by labeling media reports as "persecution" and "spiritual pornography." New and old memberships in the BCC seemed to be declining.

McKean moved from Boston to Los Angeles, where he was virtually unknown by the local media. On 6 January 1992, Kip McKean informed all lead evangelists in the Boston Movement that he is now serving as the evangelist of the Los Angeles Church of Christ. In other words, the world headquarters for the movement is L.A. On 22 July 1993, Kip McKean informed his followers that the Boston Movement has a new name -- International Churches of Christ (ICoC). During the World Leadership Conference In Los Angeles (11-15 August 1993) -- essentially following in the footsteps of David Koresh and Rev. Jim Jones -- McKean declared himself to be "God's man" leading "God's movement."

Kip obviously owes much to his one time discipler, baptizer, and the founder of the present day discipling movement -- Chuck Lucas. In 1988, Kip's followers were being told about Lucas and Crossroads. However, by 1991, Kip's followers were being told that the discipling movement began in Boston. I asked a current member of the ICoC about Chuck Lucas. He had no idea who Chuck Lucas was -- although he was sure that the ICoC had told him the complete truth about the history of the discipling movement.

The Movement of Money

One of the reasons for the rapid growth of the discipling movement has been its ability to move impressive sums of money from the pockets of members to McKean's pocket. ICoC members are expected to donate a minimum of 10% of their weekly gross income in addition to "special contributions" for the allegedly poor/needy, plus other spurious contributions. For example, a member whose income is $500 per week must contribute $50 minimum per week to the discipling movement. There are at least two "special contributions" per year. The "special contribution" is based on an announced multiplier. If "God's man" decides that the multiplier is 20, and the weekly contribution is $50, then the special contribution would be $1000 for that week, plus the normal contribution of $50--for a total take of $1050. With this system, it is possible for the movement to take a high percentage of disciples' incomes. One college student, Donna Buckmeyer, said that she donated $4,000 to the movement -- money she needed to complete her education. {"I Got Caught Up In a Cult," Seventeen Magazine, Sept. 1995, page 178}

In the United States, it is difficult to find out what percentage of church contributions for the poor and needy are going to the poor and needy. However, in the United Kingdom, the Charities Commission keeps a watchful eye on organizations who ostensibly collect money for the poor and needy. According to a Charities Commission investigation, ICoC/London Church of Christ collections for the poor and needy delivered between 1% and 3% of the monies collected to the poor and needy. The rest went for 'administrative costs'.

Personality Change and Mind-Control

The discipling movement has been widely accused of practicing cultic mind-control. Kip McKean was so sure that his critics were wrong, he hired researcher and author, Flavil Yeakley, Jr. to scientifically investigate the matter. Yeakley did his job. He conducted standard personality tests on members of the Boston Movement. Yeakley discovered that approximately 95% of the members had changed personalities. When Yeakley informed Kip McKean of the statistical results, McKean reacted favorably -- assuming that changed personality was a good thing.

Yeakley's book, The Discipling Dilemma, details his findings about the discipling movement. Yeakley points out that personality change is widely recognized as a harbinger of serious psychological troubles. There is substantial evidence that persons who are mind-controlled exhibit changed personalities. A high rate of changed personality has been measured in members of: the Unification Church, Church of Scientology™, Jehovah's Witnesses, Children of God, and Aum Shin Rikyo (supreme truth)--the church that nerve-gassed the Tokyo subway in March of 1995, killing 12 and injuring thousands.

The existence of changed personality can also be detected by observation. According to Richard G. (Rick) Bauer, an ex-member of the discipling movement elite, many male members of the discipling movement ape (mimmick) the personality of Kip McKean. Bauer said that this somewhat humorous phenomenon only became clear to him after he left the movement. Bauer left the movement after he discovered that McKean had revised the history of the movement and diverted $3.1 million in 'special contribution' funds into a numbered bank account in a foreign country.

According to "God's man" and "prophet" Kip McKean, Mother Teresa and Joan of Arc are going to spend eternity burning in the fires of Hell.

One of the more unique things about the 'discipling movement' is that, from it's beginning, members who marry are required to disclose what took place in the honeymoon bed. A description of each coital position used, number of male orgasms, and number of female orgasms must be disclosed to "God's Leaders"

Merry Christmas !

2004-12-07T10:52:00.000-05:00

Class action Lawsuit

2004-10-11T07:51:00.000-04:00

There have been many people who've wanted to bring a lawsuit to the ICOC. Here is some helpful info.

Have you guys heard of or thought of doing a class action lawsuit for the emotional damage done by incompetent leaders?? I can think of several people in my city who might be interested in filing one against the leader here who has abused many people. If one lawsuit succeeded it could open the door for so many more. This could be the way to get these people to stop placing idiots in leadership. I find the lay leaders to be the most abusive.
When people are told to do things or their salvation/church membership could be affected that is very stressful(when it goes beyond scriptural authority) I was dropped from membership with no warning and slandered/marked. Do you think cases like these could win? maybe even get back previous missions contributions in the thousands, since finding funds were mis-appropriated?? I hear Russ Ewell lived in a mansion bought with church/my money.
---------------------------
Answer from Jack Pelham:
---------------------------
I've been working on this for well over a year now. I've contacted about 10 different large firms, each of whom rejected the case. From what I gather, they do not think there will be enough money found in the ICC to warrant their time. (Typically, a firm will make %30 or more of the awards from such a case.) I've also spoken to several attorneys who are NOT members of large firms, and all of whom tell me that such a case would take a very large firm to execute.

The way the ICC has organized itself is such that there's a huge mound of inconvenience standing in the way of seeing the books. From the moral perspective, it's a no-brainer; morality demands that they show the books. But the LAW is another matter. From a legal perspective, it would take a huge amount of effort to make them open the books---that is, as the result of a lawsuit.

Now, having said all that, if someone were rich and could simply hire a firm, that would be different. (Most suits like this are done on contingency, whereby the attorneys get paid from the cash awards they manage to win.) But still, such a case could take several years.

In the mean time, however, there are more and more administrators who are leaving the ICC--more and more ministry staff, too---and so many of these saw and heard and did things about which their consciences are bothering them. It just figures that they'll start talking in the course of time, as they continue to figure out just how evil the system was. So these big time leaders can't hide forever. They're going to get bitten by their own snakes. It's pretty much inevitable; they just don't have enough cash coming in to bribe all these people, and the you're-going-to-hell pressure they put on people has a way of disappearing once someone has been gone from the church for a few months---so what can they do to KEEP people from talking?

The better solution in the meantime is to report your local congregation to your state government. Chances are that they were fraudulently collecting money as "contribution for the poor" but spending it instead on HOPE. This is illegal, yet it was the game plan all along, and it will probably even pop up in writing at some point, as it was a matter of formal policy for the churches.

What's at stake legally is whether ICOC and HOPE really are two different entities. I believe that they are NOT, yet they are acting as if they are. So once they get in trouble for this HOPE fraud in a few states, the IRS will be much more willing to conduct a thorough audit on this issue. (Remember, we were told all along that HOPE is "separate" from the church, but even Kip called it a "separate arm OF the church", and appointed Bob Gempel as the "World Sector Leader" over HOPE. And HOPE helped itself to monies collected from the public at church meetings all the time. So they were definitely behaving as if they were the church itself.

Whether we are able to win any legal victories or not in this matter, it is very important to understand that God will avenge these sins. These people are twice dead. This will surely not escape the infinite righteousness of God's judment. Already, these people are going from bad to worse, and are suffering in their own lives as they are wasting away in depression, anger, bitterness, frustration and fear. And they continue to drive from them the kinds of people who are thinking people and who make the best friends. All they have left at this point are the "yes men" who would rather be praised by a "leader" than by God.

If you want to go after it, I'd suggest reporting them to your state authorities. And here's another idea. If you're still in the city where the church is, write them a letter asking to see all the books. When they deny your request, mount signs to your car saying, "The _________ Church of Christ Won't Open Its Books", and drive around with that for a year or so. (I live two hours away from the Nashville Church, or I'd have been doing this already.) If you do this, you'll be interviewed by the news people, and it'll cause a lot of attention--and it's completely TRUE. This means they couldn't win a lawsuit against you for doing it. And if they were stupid enough to try suing you over it, that means you get a chance to tell a judge and a jury and the press about what they are doing there in your town.

After spending 17 years helping to build it, I have been quite dedicated to UN-building the ICC. However, the further I get from it, the more I realize that it's just another in a sea of churches that are quite screwed up. The same dullness I find in ICC members is found in the members of so many different denominations that it's not funny. You try to get them to think through an issue, but they just don't seem to be able to do that kind of thinking. They basically figure that if it were that important, their leaders would tell them about it. That kind of thinking is not an ICC exclusive, unfortunately.

The ICC is storing up wrath for itself. It will not surprise me at any point to hear of terrible things being uncovered, of arrests being made, of 501(c)(3) status being revoked, etc.---or even of suicides by washed-up leaders and their lieutenants. Nor will it surprise me if God lets them keeping playing their game for another 100 years. Neither would mean that God is unjust---but both would prove that the ICC is unjust.

There is not one possible explanation for hiding their books that makes them seem righteous. In fact, the best stab they can take at it is that it would "make people struggle" if they saw the books. But that has been quite effective since ICC members are quite willing to obey the boundaries set for them in their thinking. If they are TOLD they will "struggle", then they assume it must be so--and they never once question why a church should be doing things to make Christians "struggle" in the first place.

Pity the poor "disciple". And contrast that with true Christianity, in which each person would know God for himself. (Jeremiah 31:31-35, John 17:3, Matthew 7:21ff.) The ICC is just another example of a group of people trying to be mediators between their underlings and God. And why would anybody want such a role when God specifically said the church wouldn't be this way? For pride and for money. Pride and money are the gods of the ICC. Jesus they do not know. How COULD they know him and keep secrets? It's a very simple proposition that people who know Jesus imitate Jesus and don't feel comfortable neglecting to imitate him.

Love God = Open the books.

Love God = Ask to see the books.

Stay ignorant = Don't know God

Keep hiding the books = Don't know God.

My son is 17 months old. He ALREADY knows when he's wandering out in the (fenceless) front yard, to keep an eye on Daddy to be sure it's OK to go where he's going. Why can a toddler who can't even talk yet know how to behave this way, when a church full of grown ups can't seem to figure out that it's supposed to be accountable to Jesus? They quit looking to Jesus for approval a LONG time ago--and many of them have never looked to him at all, but to the "church" instead.

Do what you can, but rest assured that God will deal with these people. Whether he helps you succeed or not, it won't change the score at the end of the game. There is no way the ICC will prevail in the Judgment. Its members will be sorely disappointed to have invested their lives in a lie, and to end up not having known God for themselves, even though they were "members" of the "best" church.

Oh, that they would listen. But even their leaders like urcrazy03 cannot seem to muster a response to a godly rebuke. They love their money more than they love the truth.

Jack

[ Jack's sig:
When I left the ICC 2 years ago, I wrote a book about how the church is sinning against scripture. http://www.reveal.org/library/stories/people/jpelham.html And I participated extensively on this forum for the purpose of discussing doctrinal issues.

At this point, however, though I remain a Christian, I am participating here for the discussion of the FINANCIAL issues, which I have been investigating in earnest for over a year. Please do not mistake my focus as being innately unspiritual; I simply am not here to discuss spiritual matters at length. Also, please do not assume that whatever sharp comments you read from me here are coming out of the blue; many of these discussions involve conversants who have had ongoing dialogs. What may seem like an inordinantly sharp response may indeed be quite justified as part of an ongoing adversarial dialog.

None of what I am doing here would be necessary if only the ICC churches would open their books for independent audits. There is simply too much evidence of wrongdoing to be satisfied with their own say-so that they haven't broken the law. ]

LA ICOC Discussion Forum

2004-09-30T13:34:00.000-04:00

Cade Bryant has finally started a Delphi discussion forum on the LA church. Join the conversation and don't be afraid to start new threads! This should be very interesting.

The new LA ICOC Discussion Forum on Delphi.

Lisa Johnson's Comments on the Abuses

2004-09-28T18:02:00.000-04:00

She says she thought incidents of abuse were "isolated." Very similar to what the ICOC automatons say now.

Compare Lisa Johnson's quotes from 1990 vs. right after the HK letter (1990 taken from the rightcyberup website)

"Now this – I mean this sisters. I mean this, this is from the bottom of my heart. This is what I came to say today, to you. I believe that you have quit believing that grace will motivate people. You, personally. Take it personally. Take it individually. I believe that is one of the major problems in our movement, today. We must see it. I’ve seen the dangers, the abuses, the results of it, it is horrendous, it is sickening, it is frightening. We have got to trust that grace motivates people. We don’t need the things that we use to motivate people....

“I’m at the point where I feel like we just need to shut up and read the Bible. That it’s getting dangerous some of the things we tell each other, some of the things that we’ve done. I’m upset and I’m scared about it. I think that we have got to make a decision to repent. You know, the abuses are amazing – we begin to crystallize things – we’ve talked about it before, but sisters it’s time to change it.”

Lisa Johnson (World Sector Leader – Women), Crashing Through The Quitting Places: Discipleship, Women’s Retreat, Boston, audio tape, 1990. (about audio clips)

Now 13 years in the 2003 letter she claims she didn't know it was happening in NY (taken from her apology letter which can be found on the web).

"I'm sorry for believing (chokes) the New York church was different, that we only had isolated incidences of pain and hurt and abuse. I even thought that I was different..."

Both Lisa's and Steve's letters are here: http://www.newcovpub.com/icc/johnson_apology.htm

One could say that the first quote was in Boston and not NY (her own church) but I don't recall hearing much from her between 1990 to present about the church wide abuse issues. Did anyone else? She did see it back in 1990.

http://forums.delphiforums.com/ICCDiscussion/messages?msg=12829.1

What the ICOC is really about

2004-08-05T11:45:00.000-04:00

Open the Books

2004-05-16T10:48:00.000-04:00

by SinCamper who's on ICC DF. Brilliant!

2004-05-15T08:20:00.000-04:00

Good Riddance to Bad Rubbish
Finally.

There is a thread about Upcyberdown being UPcyberdone. Well, I wanted to know for sure so I went to www.upcyberdown.org and indeed, there is a little article there called "time for change" where they explain the "reasons" for the demise of UCD.

apparently, UCD will cease operations on 6.30.04

NYCOC: http://forums.delphiforums.com/nycoc/messages?msg=752.1
ICCDF: http://forums.delphiforums.com/ICCdiscussion/messages?msg=11374.1

2004-05-13T08:33:00.000-04:00

Psychological Fallout from the ICOC

Horrible... a Florida ICOC member as recent as Aug 2003, this woman murdered her children this week.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/services/site/premium/access-registered.intercept

ICC DF discussion here:

http://forums.delphiforums.com/ICCdiscussion/messages?msg=11354.1

2004-02-09T15:00:00.000-05:00

Amusing 1988 Steve Johnson Quote: "I don’t want to own anything. I want all of my real estate to be invested in heaven."
Dave Anderson from RightCyber Up dug this up and posted this on the ICC DF.

In light of the pictures of Steve Johnson's home now posted on this Forum, I thought many of you would find this Steve Johnson quote quite interesting:

"If you walked by faith instead of financial security, that would be utterly shocking. It says we’re justified by our faith. See, I walk by faith in that area – I’m really blessed, I’ll just be candid with you guys – the church takes care of Lisa and me. We’re paid enough to live on, and we don’t go hungry. And so for us we’re constantly looking for ways to sacrifice so we can feel a little bit of pain. But the church is very, very kind. But I don’t know what it’s like to live by faith and not financial security. We don’t have a savings account. We don’t have CDs – either kind. I don’t think that’s wrong, to have a CD, but – I mean, all I’m saying is, I want the day I die not to own any property. I don’t want to own anything. I want all of my real estate to be invested in heaven. Now, I’m not saying it’s a sin if you own something – don’t get me wrong. But, what kind of safety nets are you holding out there? ‘If this doesn’t work, I’ve been smart. I didn’t give it all. Didn’t sell the ranch.’

"See, somebody falls away, ‘Boy, he bought the farm. You know, but shoot, he gave it all away. He fell – if he hadn’t given it all to the church, when he fell away, he’d have something now – boy, I’d won’t make that mistake.’ You say, ‘Well, I’d never say anything like that.’ I think a lot of you – you might not be planning your falling away retirement fund. But you’ve got it. I think it’d be shocking if you walked by faith, in your financial security."

Steve Johnson, Jesus Was Not a Nice Guy, New York City, audiotape, 1988.

A Software.com Yacht Party
Some interesting info from Gracie on ICC DF. Larry Salberg was a former Orthodox Jew who started doubting Jesus as an ICOC minister.

Just as a bit of interesting info: on the Software.com deal; the 'investors' had a party celebrating their earnings on a yacht with Steve Johnson.

I saw the pictures; the only ones there were those who had invested. Larry and Jennifer Salberg were among them.

peace,
Gracie

Boring, whiny Kip Article
My God Kip, shut up already.

2004-02-07T23:05:00.000-05:00

An Insider's Open Letter to Steve Johnson - Ken Carlstedt
Read on. From ICC DF. Ken Carlstedt and his wife Jeri assisted the Johnsons for many years in the NYC church, and have seen more of the Johnsons' lifestyle than most people. Thus his words hold much weight not just in terms of its moral indignation but his personal knowledge of SJ's life.

Also referenced are SJ's deceitful comments about himself as a "poor preacher," not only to the church but also to a City Beat reporter. Full text article is included.

After two decades of amassing a fortune while leading the New York Church of Christ, Steve Johnson is technically now a millionaire-- since the equity on his house alone is just shy of a million.

With the on-line heat coming down hard on Steve, he's about to hurriedly skip town with his loot to lead and direct the finances of an unsuspecting church in Savannah, Georgia.

In this atmosphere, insider Ken Carlstedt posted a powerful letter on one of the many threads discussing Steve's shady dealings and luxurious lifestyle.

The thread is called

Steve Johnson: 'My house is kinda junky.'

Ken Carlstedt was responding to an old newspaper article I dug out and posted. In this article, Steve Johnson slickly and deceptively claimed to be living a modest lifestyle, with no misappropriation of funds, etc.

Ken's letter was/is so powerful and credible in the way it calls Steve on his b.s.---i.e. the letter's damaging truth comes from a high-up insider/confidante of Steve Johnson's, not an oustide observer like myself.

As such, Ken's letter deserves a thread of its own. Here goes:

-------------------AN OPEN LETTER FROM KEN CARLSTEDT----------------
---------------------------TO STEVE JOHNSON-----------------------

Dear Steve J.,

This message is directly to you, not really a response to the poster.

Steve, do you understand the deception you practiced? If so, you have never confessed openly, so I will help you see it, again.

Let's keep it simple. 'When the impression you work hard to give is intended to cover up reality, that is called deception.'

Steve, you remember that you intentionally planted too many trees and shrubs in front of your house, and let things get overgrown, even with Buzz around who is an excellent gardener and had indeed done miraculous gardening at his house.

You did this specifically to make it look like a normal little house, or even a bit quirky and less than normal, that certainly wouldn't look like anything 'special' or 'lavish' from the front. You worked hard to create that impression.

You will remember that one of the things that pleased you about that particular house, back when we all moved to Rockland together in the early and mid-1990's, was that it had an appearance from the front as a modest little house. You and Lisa were glad to find a house that 'looked small from the street' because you believed this would help shield you and your family from the questions that were coming up about the apartment on 98th street, the lavish decorations provided for you mostly free of charge from you know who, the 'intricate' but probably fully legal (since minor shadings of the truth are rarely prosecutable) ways that you and he financed it, etc.

'You dreaded those questions then as you are dreading the questions in the past year. Don't you see the pattern here? What does it mean when someone gets defensive? Remind yourself of your own teachings, and heal thyself.

Steve, you do remember that in close proximity to the time you were on the phone giving the interview referenced in this thread, there were stoneworkers, construction people, cement pourers, fireplace experts, and other kinds of work being done, on the back of the house, out of site from the street. Or, at least, you were well into the planning stages of how to put your investment gains into your house.

You need to be in touch with reality enough to remember that these home improvements cost you in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. Do we need to name names, and quote prices paid, to help you remember?

Steve, why are you willing to give the impression of running and hiding out? Could it be that you ARE running and hiding out again, without admitting this even to yourself?

Steve, please come forward openly and publicly, as you committed personally to me that you would do, about one year ago almost to this day, in my basement, about everything.

At the very least, if you can't bring yourself to come clean about everything, then come clean about these specific issues. Open up publicly about the improvements you made to your home and the money you used to make them. Give all the details, don't hold anything back. You see, when you are a public leader accepting public money as pay (church members are the public in this case), then the public does indeed have a right to know your finances, especially given the clear impression of impropriety.

Do you understand there is a clear impression of impropriety here? You need to, if you don't. It doesn't matter that some of your best friends are telling you to not worry about it. You need to ignore them and do the right thing.

More than that: 'When the impression you are working hard to give is intended to cover up reality, that is called deception.'

You will likely loose your soul if you continue refusing to come clean. Whatever you do or don't do, I will pray that God will be merciful to you, but my hope for you is not strong if you persist. You know the right thing to do and have refused to do it, wreaking havoc around you, exactly and precisely as we discussed a year ago.

Steve, I am not persecuting you. You are simply in need of coming clean. You and I both know it, and so many others who know you well know it. Telling you that truth is the best thing I can do for you.

Summarize it for yourself, it may be easier to see that way. Say it to yourself: 'I was a minister in a rapidly growing, dynamic, financially-surging organization. Lots and lots of perks came my way because of my position in the organization and because of the way I was discipled, and chose to follow, to handle people around me in that position.'

Steve, just come clean about all this, it's so simple. Perhaps most people could still forgive you, although I can speak for no one but myself.

Lots of love,

Ken

________________________________________________________________

Here's a link to Ken's letter in the context of the thread:

http://forums.delphiforums.com/ICCdiscussion/messages/?msg=10358.3

Here's a link to the initial post Ken was responding to:

http://forums.delphiforums.com/ICCdiscussion/messages/?msg=10358.1

Finally, here's a transcript of that initial post:

________________________________________________________________

STEVE JOHNSON: My house is kind of junky.

... or so he put it to a reporter in 2000 while defending his ownership of the house currently being discussed on the forum———the fireplace in-the-bathroom digs now featured in photos being viewed on the forum.

It's from an article I dug out of the TOLC files.

In the same article, Steve Johnson also plays the role of the poor preacher with other comments:

1) Regarding his unimpressive cars———one that he's forced to share with his father-in-law; regarding other car, Steve sheepishly describes it this way:

It will go fast... when it's running.

2) Regarding the home itself: he bought it for only $123,000, and that was with help from my father-in-law;

3) Regarding his salary, he refuses to discuss it. Instead he ducks the question with the glib comeback, If I ever get rich, it won't be because of the church. It'll be because I won the lottery.

4) Regarding the uncomfortable questions being put to him over the phone, Steve jokingly compares himself to Jesus and the reporter to one of Jesus' crucifiers. Steve tell the reporter to hold on to the phone\ while he gets the reporter some more nails to crucify me with.
________________________________________________________________

TALK ABOUT YOUR OWN WORDS COMING BACK TO HAUNT YOU!!!

It's a classic

Here's the link:

http://www.tolc.org/nybeat.htm

Here's an excerpt:

CITY BEAT Reporter: (Steve Johnson) will get serious when talk turns to faith, or to allegations that he and other leaders in the church——— where weekly tithing is required———lead lavish lifestyles.

For several years, Johnson lived in a three-bedroom, 2,200-square foot condo on W. 98th St. that today would probably fetch more than $1 million. But Johnson said he never owned the apartment and moved out several years ago after the owner, a friend, 'went belly up in the real estate market and had to sell.'

Johnson bought a four-bedroom house in West Nyack, Rockland County, for a reported $123,000 with help from his father-in-law, he said. 'It's kind of junky,' said Johnson, an assertion not disproved by photographs. (Those are photos OF THE OUTSIDE, during the FALL OF 2000... DUDE)

Last week, workers could be seen repairing water damage to the two-story home. Outside were parked the three cars registered to Johnson: 1997 Ford Expedition, a 1975 pickup truck that Johnson said he shares with his father-in-law, and a 1989 Ford Mustang that Johnson said 'will go fast, when it's running.'

When asked, Johnson refused to detail his salary. But he did give this assurance: 'If I ever get rich, it won't be because of the church. It'll be because I won the lottery.'

RELEVANT HISTORICAL LINKS:
Leadership Lifestyles

2004-02-03T17:02:00.000-05:00

The Famous Fireplace in Steve Johnson's Bathroom
Paid for by us who were suckers in the NYCOC. Paid for by the BENEVOLENCE funds. Click "more pictures" to see YOUR fireplace in the NYC lead evangelist's bathroom. It's selling for almost One Million, by the way... I'd like to get my damn tithe back!!

Steve Johnson's home

Steve Johnson's fireplace in the bathroom

Remember how people packed themselves into nasty small apartments with 10 roommates? So we could pay tithe? THIS is what we paid for. Remember single moms? This is where the money went that they DIDN'T receive.

It is truly Disgusting.

Nothing angers me more than this kind of greed and hypocrisy. EVERYONE should see these pictures.

Apparently SJ put a bunch of money from some shady thing at Software.com (one of the Boston ICOC Board of Directors was a Software.com VP) to pay for renovations for the place. Check out the NYCOC and ICC DF threads on the Software.com issue and the SJ House:

NYCOC: Steve Johnson's home on sale for $1M!

NYCOC: Steve Johnson House -- photos

ICC DF: Is this REALLY Steve Johnson's house?

ICC DF: PHOTOS OF STEVE JOHNSON'S HOUSE

Interesting ICOC Stats site
I added a new link for a web site called Icocstats.org. It's written by a "faithful" ICC member, and interestingly enough leaves out the 2003 stats. Does anyone have numbers for any church in 2003?

2004-01-26T16:13:00.000-05:00

NYCOC Financials: More Evidence of Their Greed.

Out for all to see. Look at the numbers carefully - D&T declares the financial statements present the full picture fairly.

Note the Benevolence numbers:
Revenues for Benevolence, page 3: $661,485
Expenses for Benevolence, page 9: $ 92,540

That's $568,945 that went into their pockets. That could have gone to single moms, people in genuine need. Not to mention the many who were literally starving to pay tithe.

From icocnews.com:

The New York City Church of Christ 2002 Audited Financial Statements are now available. The audit was performed by Deloitte & Touche, and the statements can be viewed by clicking on the link provided.

ICC DF and NYCOC both have discussions on this topic.

2004-01-23T10:37:00.000-05:00

Cult Leader Kip is At It Again
And so are bad reporters, apparently. This guy makes it look like the mainline church takes him seriously -- at this mainline COC mag.
If you thought the Boston mag article was a joke, check this Christianity Chronicle article out. Also in full text below.
Kip, you are NOT a spokesperson for the ICOC! Don't you know people are snickering at your stupid letters, and articles, and other self-promotion?! Get over yourself!

And where the hell is 60 minutes?

**********************************************************************
CURRENTS

Interview with Kip McKean — extended

January 22, 2004

What do you feel are the greatest strengths of the International Churches of Christ? What can mainstream churches of Christ learn from the ICOC?

I very much appreciate The Christian Chronicle for directly asking me these questions. The leaders in the ICOC have prayed for guidance from God’s Word from our earliest days. Some of the strengths God has forged in the ICOC are:

1) The call for each person who is baptized to have a heartfelt relationship with God. We believe each person who becomes a Christian (baptized disciple) is called to have the same level of commitment as Jesus, the apostles and the early church.

2) We believe every disciple should have the same mission as Jesus – to seek and save the lost.

3) We also have a collective dream to evangelize the world in our lifetime. In a relatively short time God’s Spirit has established many churches in mainland China, Europe, Central and South America, the former Soviet Union, Africa, Australia and the Middle East including Iraq and Afghanistan as well as some of the largest churches in the US. Approximately half of our churches and membership are outside the United States.

4) During the ‘80’s in Boston, we preached what we believed was the Bible pattern of one church in each city. Because of that teaching, our churches reflect the demographics of their city. Therefore, we do not have “black churches” or “white churches” or “Hispanic churches,” but simply congregations with races united in Christ. To effectively lead these churches, the leadership is also usually diverse in its ethnic makeup.

5) Through the missionaries’ making disciples of nationals, God has blessed us with strong national leadership in every church on every continent. In spite of this diversity, we have remained unified in our purpose and not been split into different groups.

6) Also, we encouraged women to serve in the full-time ministry and in non-full-time ministry in leading and discipling other women as seen in Titus 2:3-5.

7) Small groups (Bible Talks, family groups, sectors) are the key for multiplying disciples, meeting each disciple’s need and giving each one a place to use his or her gifts.

8) Our worship services have been very dynamic and inspiring. We believe and practice both a capella and instrumental music in our worship.

These are some of the strengths God has given us.

What is your core message in "From Babylon to Zion," your latest manuscript to the ICOC? (www.portland.ucd.net)

I have always been moved by God’s refining his beloved but sinful people through the captivity in Babylon. After those difficult days, God returned them triumphantly to Zion (Jerusalem) when their focus on God and his Word was restored. (Jeremiah 29:11) There were several reasons why I wrote this letter. I felt the need to express my personal apology for any and all hurts I had caused to all of the members around the world. (Please read pages 3-7 in From Babylon to Zion.) I shared in my letter the difficult time that my family had been through and our struggle not to become bitter or angry toward those who had hurt us. Now I see that God refines all of us through difficult times. It is sad that in the history of so many Christian movements, when leaders go through difficult times, the church attacks them to the point that many leave the ministry and some even leave God. I still have a deep conviction that I was called into the ministry to serve our Lord. I wanted to assure everyone that even though no single individual leads all the churches, I feel similar to Paul’s love as a “father through the gospel” (1 Corinthians 4:15). So in my letter I wanted to reaffirm my heartfelt concern for all the churches.

Specifically in my letter I pleaded for people not to respond to those who were calling for autonomy from each other, but to continue the unity God has forged among us and to continue the calling for world evangelism to honor the sacrifice of Christ on the cross. (See pages 40-42)

I also tried to offer suggestions as to the changes that we need to make to mature the church and to more closely follow God’s Word. (See pages 32-33)

Why did you begin your sabbatical in October of 2001 and resign in November of 2002, as leader of the ICOC? Your statement posted on the Web site seemed to emphasize sin and personal failure, but The Boston Globe (May 17, 2003) reported that it was mostly because your daughter decided to leave the church. What is the accurate view?

In an effort to protect my family, I originally did not mention the issue of one of my children’s leaving the church while attending college. However, this was the precipitating event for several of the most influential leaders in the ICOC to no longer back me as leader of our churches. They believed if I was to lead all the churches, I had to live up to the requirement of being an elder that includes all of your children being faithful, though I never claimed to be one. I was encouraged at this time that my closest brothers discipled me, urging me to look inward to see what hurt my child’s faith. God revealed to me that the character weaknesses and sin that hurt my family were also the ones that hurt my ministry. To be accurate, though, many of the ICOC leaders no longer backed my leadership, not just because my child left the faith, but because they (many with roots in mainline church theology) opposed the central leadership that I represented for all the churches. Though it hurt beyond words to see some of those whom I had trained and sent out on the mission field turn their back on me at a very dark hour, I see now that this was God’s way to break me of my sin and to refocus me on my relationship with him -- not my accomplishments, my sin or the adoration of the people, but to accept that God’s grace is totally sufficient for my life. I felt the best thing was not to blame my child for my resignation, but to take full responsibility myself for my shortcomings.

Presently, in the Portland Church, I have tried to surround myself with brothers in best friend relationships who help me in my own walk with God, keeping my heart pure in my devotion to God.

What was your original vision for the ICOC? What did you seek to accomplish that the mainstream church of Christ did not have, in your view? Do you think that vision has been fulfilled?

I took my vision from God’s dream that all men be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth. (1 Timothy 2:4) It was clear and simple:
1) That the members of every church would be composed of only disciples. In serving as a young minister with mainline churches in Florida, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Texas and Tennessee, I saw so many churches in which a large percentage of the members were not truly committed to Christ. For example, only half of the people who attended on Sunday morning would go to midweek services. Also, most mainline preachers and members felt evangelism was a “gift” instead of Jesus’ mission.

2) I believe that in Boston, God gave us a plan that would evangelize the entire world with the gospel using Jesus’ principle of one disciple making another disciple. Donald McGavran, the foremost denominational authority on church growth at the time, noted that we had a unique plan in our age. In 1981 with the Boston Church’s membership being composed of only 500 disciples, we committed to God (Proverbs 16:3) to plant churches in all the major cities of the world – New York, Los Angeles, London, Paris, Johannesburg, Moscow, Hong Kong, Mexico City, Buenos Aires, Cairo, etc. By the power of God, this is what happened. We called these churches “pillar churches.” From these pillar churches, likewise composed of only disciples, we sent mission teams led by trained evangelists to plant churches in the capital cities of the surrounding nations. By 2001, God had reached 171 nations – more nations than McDonalds is in. From those capital churches, mission teams would be sent out to smaller cities. From these churches teams would be sent to the towns and villages so that everyone could know the gospel in our lifetime.

3) We believed in only one church in one city as in the New Testament. I also envisioned that these churches would be unified throughout the world. They would not be autonomous (independent of each other), but would be tied together by relationships – in particular relationships of evangelists throughout the world similar to the original apostles, Paul, Timothy, Titus, Barnabas, Epaphroditus, etc.

I continue to be an evangelist and member of the ICOC even though all central leadership has been dismantled. There continue to be enough evangelists who believe in evangelizing their regions throughout the world to direct the evangelism of the world if they are willing.

The ICOC has followed a controversial model of one-on-one discipling. Define that model. Do you consider it an essential practice for maturing Christians?

I believe it is biblical for us to imitate the relationship Jesus had with the apostles and the relationships they had with one another. For example, the apostles had a student/teacher or younger brother/older brother relationship with Jesus. They also had adult/adult relationships with each other. Jesus paired the apostles for the mission. (Matthew 10) Both types of relationships are essential to lead people to maturity. Another text that demonstrates the student/teacher relationship is in Titus 2 where the older women are to train the younger women.

Another biblical path to maturity comes from studying the “one another” passages in the New Testament such as “love one another,” “encourage one another,” “serving one another,” “pray for one another,” and “confess your sins to one another” and so on. When those are applied in a godly way, we mature the body and God is glorified. Ultimately, to become mature, the responsibility comes down to our willingness to have deep convictions from the Word that we put into practice. (Hebrews 5:11-6:3) Each Christian must take full responsibility to have their own deep convictions from the Word that they put into practice.

As ICOC churches and mainstream churches in the U.S. and abroad begin to dialogue, how do you view the possibilities for these two groups to be united? Are you actively encouraging it? Why or why not?

I believe that true unity must come through the Spirit, the water and the blood. In time, true disciples in both churches will feel akin to each other and those who have compromised their faith to the point of lukewarmness will also feel akin to each other. Since the ICOC no longer has a central leadership, I believe that some churches, like other historical religious movements, will become complacent and lukewarm and there will be divisions. In my travels around the world, I have been able to see a wide variety of churches. Though I believe there are many disciples in the mainline churches and in other parts of the Restoration Movement (such as the Christian Churches), many of these congregations do not enjoy a vibrant worship, deep fellowship or life-changing evangelistic outreach. They are not growing. However, the mainline congregations that are striving to practice the Bible principles to produce these characteristics, will be united in spirit with our churches who remain true to the Scriptures. In the past I have spoken at mainline churches and will certainly consider such offers in the future.

We must remember that God’s ultimate goal for us is not to be the mainline church and its many divisions or to be the ICOC with our failings. The goal is to be Jesus’ church. We must remember the point of unity is to honor God, not to please leaders or members. When we have biblical unity, we have brotherhood and world evangelism.

We understand that a great many changes have taken place within the ICOC following your sabbatical and resignation. Describe the nature of these changes.

The number of people who have left the church has caused us to examine ourselves according to the Scriptures. It is like the parable of the sower. Some chose to no longer follow Jesus. Some left because their roots were shallow and their faith withered under trial. Others became distracted with the cares of the world and sought a more comfortable Christianity. What touched my heart the most was that some left because they were not treated well. Every person’s loss of faith is troubling, but I feel very responsible for those who were not loved as they should have been. In my letter I apologized to everyone whom I have wronged directly or indirectly and I beg their forgiveness.

God’s disciplining hand has been on the ICOC (Hebrews 12:5-11). Collectively and individually, we are learning many lessons in humility, grace, depth and maturity as God is changing us to be more of whom he wants us to be. Gideon doubted the presence of God because he did not see the miracles. God did awesome things with him once he believed. For me, I pray this will be a great time of learning from brothers and sisters in the ICOC or from the mainline. I personally am open to dialogue with any brother or sister who wants to advance God’s church and who loves him with all their heart, soul, mind and strength.

Many of the changes that are taking place in our fellowship, and that need to take place, I have outlined on page 32 – 33 of my letter to the churches. These include: the paramount importance of the cross; practicing the greatest commands of loving God and each other; stressing grace; the power of the Holy Spirit in our daily life; the value of each and every member of Christ’s body; biblical conflict resolution; our purpose is to glorify God and our mission is to evangelize the world; our primary motive is to please God; preaching the Word for the young and the mature; and servant leadership. Although God has worked through us and the principle of discipling to raise up many powerful evangelists, we have not raised up enough elders, deacons and teachers who are needed to shepherd the flock to maturity. I strongly believe God is preparing us for a harvest of righteousness and peace if we will listen to him through his Word and the Spirit.

Thank you very much for this opportunity to share my thoughts with the members of the mainline churches of Christ. These comments only represent my thoughts and opinions. I pray we can continue to help each other seek God. My greatest desire is that we will all “be brought to complete unity” by making the cross paramount in our lives, loving God, loving one another and loving the lost. I pray we will live to see the day that every person in the world has heard the gospel. Please pray for the Portland International Church of Christ to boldly preach the Word.

2004-01-16T14:58:00.000-05:00

ICOC Churches' Name Changes
Here are some posts about this issue, which you can validate if you know anyone in LA or Philadelphia. Not a huge surprise here, though, considering "ICOC" is supposedly not a legal entity anymore.

By Swordlady on the NYCOC forum
A friend of mine told me that one of the regions of the Philly church is planning a name change - from the "East region of the GPCC" to something a lot simpler: the Crossroads Christian Church, ot something like that. The members are going to vote on it. This is meant to reflect their dissociation from the ICOC name.

Posted on Discipleforum.com
It came to my attention on this forum this morning
that the ICOC name is no more the title of the Churches once associated
with the name as well as this website.

I also called a couple brothers in the LA church and they confirmed
that last night at midweek services this to be true.

I understand that the name was original put into place for legal
reasons, and realize that it is no way an issue of doctrine. But at the
sametime I do believe that this could be a stepping stone. Especially when
it comes to an autonomous existence for individual congregations with a
definite spirit of unity still bonding them together throughout the
would.

I am of the believe that within the "mainline" Churches of Christ they
have took the idea of "autonomy" and to an extent have corrupted it to
a point of "independence"

Hopefully with the churches formerly known as the ICOC this does not
take place but rather they set forth an example of autonomous leadership,
but an unity of fellowship and conviction.

I would love to here if other disciples also heard of
this this past week at their services?

All feedback is always a good thing!!!

2004-01-12T12:01:00.000-05:00

Seems like things have died down. But don't hold your breath! Rumors now circulating that the ICOC is changing its name. Stay tuned...

2003-10-29T11:55:00.000-05:00

Henry Kriete, Is the ICOC a cult?

Henry Kriete stated his current belief to that question this past weekend in NYC. Following is a transcription of his belief, with some introduction, from the Saturday afternoon meeting with the New York Christian church.

-----------------------

Intro

I'm not a spokesperson. I know a little bit of what’s going on. I’m just trying to get my own life together and get help where I can. Trying to work my salvation with fear & trembling. And I’ll do the best I can here. I may change my answers a week from now (laughter), no I’m serious – I am in major transition right now.

I’m getting emails like, do you think the ICOC is a cult? I’m getting all of them. And you know it’s some things like “I waver,” some are like “yeah,” some are “I don’t think so,” some are “I don’t want to have anything to do with it anymore because I fear I would be endorsing,” I don’t believe with all my heart and feel that they are trying.” I’m just in one of those places. So I’m going to go ahead and start with the most emotionally loaded question, Do you believe the ICOC is a cult?

Answer

Let me explain – well I wrote a little letter to Heather. I don’t know who Heather is. Is she here yet? Maybe she isn’t. But she asked me that question. And I’ll tell you where I’m at right now, okay. Not to be evasive, number 1 – if you were a cult leader, it’s very hard to see you say - like saying to a fish in the water, do you swim in the water? No? Agree, yeah! It’s a word you don’t find in the NT. But a word you do find is “sect,” false prophet, arrogance, leaders losing connection with the head, douse, God is putting out the church, you find that stuff.

Here’s how I would answer that. I think – you got a big meeting to help me out here – I think [there are in the ICC?], these are systemic sins. And they’re a struggling group. But I also believe that it did affect the different churches and leaders to various degrees. Everybody was affected. There are some leaders I would now say, man they are Cult Leaders. And [in contrast] there are some places I’ve been like in India, some places in Africa, Harrisburg, Virginia, and more, but not a lot. We’ve never been told this is what you have to preach, but there’s a controlling nature, which you know, there’s a culture of deceit, which you know about, there’s abuse, totalitarianism, to different degrees.

I would say that the ICOC is a sect with a lot of very cult-like tendencies, especially some places. I would never be commanded, “This is what you’ve got to preach and teach.” I can’t ever remember ever being given that – “this is what you have to preach and teach,” in terms of theology, in terms of [prejudice?]. But the culture of control that you know about –invasiveness, money, bad theology – that’s prevalent as all of us know. But I think the ICOC was infested, infected, with abberational theology.

The one I am burdened with, that I struggle with all the time is, “Are there any brothers and sisters there?” Sure. You guys became Christians in the ICOC. And I go, no matter how lukewarm in [Thessalonica?] or worldly they were in Corinth or legalistic in Galatia, the converts themselves must be going “well, Amen, through all this junk – I’ve found Christ. Why it’s so difficult for me ( and you don’t think it should be difficult) is,
I truly believe with all my heart that there is only one true church. Not like “we’re the true church” not that way, but there is one body, one church. And, like it or not, accept it or not, admit or not, if you’re a Christian, you’re a part of it. Among that family there’s aberrations, there’s wickedness. It’s like you have a family with 13 kids. One becomes a murderer, one’s a teacher, one’s a banker, one’s this, one’s a cult leader. These are your kids!

And this is my struggle right now, it really is. Because people want me to just absolutely, “you cannot associate with the ICOC anymore, in any way, shape or form.” I’m just not there yet. I know some of you are - “I am done, period!” But I feel like there are Christians.

And I think there are leaders that are completely unrepented. I think New York is a fiasco, and I support your decision, I respect it. In other places, I feel there are Christians…. There are some churches I think still guilty that have renounced the ICOC. You know what I mean? But it’s like, let’s say in Vancouver – we didn’t sign an affiliation agreement. In fact, if we did, I would have been gone. I will no longer be a part of that. The leader has declared his intents to the ICOC to go to Dallas. No one is over us, the money is not going nowhere.

Some people don’t think that’s enough. I mean that’s – now what they should they do in Vancouver, what if the whole church is really trying to change? I think some are doing it. I think Salt Lake. Others, no. I wouldn’t go to San Francisco and I certainly done with that. I think the ICOC is abberational, is just severely lacking repentance. Those who have light and don’t act on them, you’re under the curse of God. But I do think people have to work out their own salvation in fear and trembling.

2003-10-27T12:59:00.000-05:00

Henry Kriete in NYC
Kriete came to NYC to preach. He also did some Q&A sessions, which you can see posted on the NYCOC forum.

HK in NYCOC: Q&A session (first question posted below)

Post your response to HK Q&A session here.

Henry Kriete Q&A session in NYC

Here is the scoop on the question & answer session that Henry gave to a small meeting this weekend in Manhattan. These are the same questions he gave to the service on Sunday. At the smaller meeting, he answered these questions on the fly, and don't think he skipped any. I saw. I asked hard questions and he did answer them. He emphasized that he is not a spokesperson for the ICOC. He also said that since he is very conflicted, his answers could change. "I am in a major transition," he said.
Before these sessions, Henry did a sermon as well, and it was mainly all scriptures about Jesus. No recruiting or evangelization ICCisms.

I have the recordings of his answers, but for now I'll paraphrase his answers from my notes. I'm at work so this will consist of a few posts... I am closing this thread to responses. Please see the Response folder to post responses. Thanks.
--------------------------------------------------
Q: Is the ICOC a cult?
A: That is an emotionally loaded question for me. Is Heather here? (LOL) I don't want to be evasive, but - if you were a cult leader... LOL... you don't find the word cult in the Bible, but you do find "sect," "arrogance," etc. The ICOC is a Sect with cult-like tendencies. I would say that some of the ICOC leaders ARE cult leaders. Others are not.

Also, I was never given mandates, "You must preach this or that." But we cannot deny that we had a culture of control. Invasiveness. Bad theology. Abberational theology.

I do believe there's ONE body, one church. But NOT the "One True Church" ICOC-style. If you are a Christian, you are part of the body. You are united to the body.

But for the record: I am DONE with the ICOC, and have cut ALL affiliation with it. (Later he states that Vancouver church refused to sign an affiliation agreement with the ICOC.)

[additional notes:]
I'm here to support you. The stonewalling with the finances... What happened in NYC is a tragedy. I respect your decision to leave the church.

http://forums.delphiforums.com/nycoc/messages?msg=345.1 "Henry Kriete's Question & Answer Session"

2003-10-24T12:00:00.000-04:00

Will the Leaders Ever Understand How Cruel They Were?

You reap what you sow. A response to a former WML who wrote about returning to the secular world.

This is one of the most powerful posts I've read: about a leader who writes about her realizations, about returning to a normal working life and learning how "privileged," and Cruel, her life was as an ICOC minister. It was not the sacrifice that she believed it was.

I wonder how many of these leaders now, among those who are scrambling to keep their salaries and benefits, who are crushed with their own self pity over what has "happened," can ever come to a full understanding of the "sins," the injustice, the evil they had ultimately perpetrated.

I really believe these people live the grand delusion. I was talking with a friend who said that Summer McKean had a "nervous breakdown." Some members had accused her of racism (my friend said she believed Summer to be more elitist, than racist). Well, no wonder. The woman had been raised to believe this illusory, insane life was right, was good, was sacrificial. People who have never had a "pre-ICC" life, and fully embraced the church's system - how lost! A person who was cruel, who deserves all the enemies in the world. How dare she have any pity for herself. I sure would not want to be in her shoes. But how can you deny the injustice in her life as well?

It takes a person with incredibly strong character, backbone, and conscience - not in the ICC way but in the truest way - to resist this brainwashing and do what is right. Even more when you are raised in the church. Obviously Summer did not have this. I admire the fact that Olivia had the backbone to eventually leave, though I know it was difficult for her.

I have to say, so many people lose in this situation. The leaders who are still comfortable do not suffer now, but I am certain their reward for their cruelty - the wrath of "God" or whoever it is - is not finished, is coming to them, and I do not feel any pity for them.

http://forums.delphiforums.com/ICCdiscussion/messages?msg=6122.92 "Why Leaders Must Get Out"

The original post:

Letter from long-time annonymous former staff person:

As background in case you don't know me - I was baptized in XXX in
l9XX, moved to XXX on the mission team in XX, worked as a XXXX for XXX, then went into the ministry at XX years old. My husband and I married in XX, and we moved wherever we were asked (more times than I can count), and sold everything to move Overseas for XX years before returning to the U.S. and coming to back to U.S.

We resigned from the ministry after over many years. I felt so much pressure to produce numbers, look a certain way, dress a certain way, have a beautiful home, make the stage at church beautiful, have beautiful people singing on stage, etc. - in short, a lot of emphasis on all the wrong things, but I didn't realize it at the time.

Having been in the ministry for a long time, and now having worked in
secular jobs for over XX years, I feel I have a unique perspective. I had no idea while I was in the ministry how out of touch I was with what "real" or "normal" (for lack of a better word) lives were.

I don't think anyone who has been in the ministry for years, especially if they went into the ministry straight out of college and never worked, can really grasp this until you've experienced it. I cannot emphasize enough to not underestimate how difficult it is to change the way you have thought when you have been in the ministry for years & years.

I hadn't taught in the Sunday school program since l983, although I had counselled (and corrected and rebuked) people on their attitudes about teaching. I had no idea what it was like when Wednesday night classes ran late, and what it was like to try to pick up the pieces of 2 tired children on Thursday morning at 6:45 trying to get them to school.

After only my first week working at the Medical Center as a XX for 12 hour shifts, the realization hit me how demanding I had thought my schedule was when I was on staff - now every day was much more intense than that staff meeting Tuesday as I went to work, tried to cook dinner before I left in the morning, arranged childcare for my children, etc. I was used to always being right, always having my opinion be the right one, telling people what to do all day long, and thinking I always knew better.

After resigning, it was the best thing that ever happened to us to stay where we had led (not go somewhere else, and certainly not to go somewhere else and accept another ministry job! that certainly wouldn't fit the definition of resignation) and learn the MANY lessons that we needed to learn. It was humbling and difficult to be on the other side of the pulpit, but you get a different, and very valuable view from there.

It's hard to explain the mindset that occurs when you have been in the
ministry for a long time. I really thought that being in the ministry was the only thing worth doing, that only the "best" people could do it, and so I looked down on everyone else for not being "sharp" enough to be in the ministry.

I was used to always being right, making judgements about big, little and totally unimportant things and expecting the people around me to do things my way, always having people help me with my responsibilities in life, being able to delegate anything I didn't want to do, having babysitters always readily available, using people to get my goals accomplished and make me look good (although at the time I thought it was sincere and best for them), etc. The pride and arrogance were overwhelming.

It has taken years to understand that no one else in the church has this carte blanche lifestyle. (We could sure use some of those babysitters now!!)

Recently, a couple we are close to came to us asking for a short term loan to be able to buy their child glasses. The husband has a full time job and a masters degree and the wife works part time. It hit me this is how most of the middle class in the United States lives - one thing goes wrong (a broken transmission, needing new glasses, an unexpected medical bill) and you are unable to meet your financial obligations. When you're in the ministry, all of your needs are met: medical insurance (even co-pays), mileage allowances for travel, expense account allowances for housing and entertainment, and so you are shielded from this kind of financial pressure.

So we asked people to be sacrificial, when really we weren't experiencing any real kind of financial sacrifice ourselves, as all of our needs were always met.

Myself, as well as all of the "old-timers" who have been in the ministry for years, have built a crumbling mess. It has not been easy to "fix" me (especially my thinking) and even after 4 years out of the ministry, I'm still not "fixed" because I have been trained in elitism, arrogance, harshness, judgementalism, and pride.

I am extremely concerned about the rushing stampede to hire Sam Laing to come to Athens. It is obvious the many strengths that Sam and Geri have to offer - their marriage, family, counselling ability, etc. But, from my viewpoint after having been in the ministry for over 1/3 of my life, having had 32 years in the ministry is not a plus, but a serious minus.

I have nothing against Sam & Geri Laing, but I have seen the mindset, priviledges, lifestyle and thought process that a leader on his "level" or "tier" in the ICOC system has been steeped in. I also believe many of these mindsets will not even be obvious to Sam for a long time, because we have been thoroughly indoctrinated in that way of thinking.

I believe that Sam is sincere in wanting to repent and that the Triangle church in many ways wasn't as oppressive or controlling as some of the ICOC churches have been, yet it will take time, and many painful conversations, to learn a new way of thinking and dealing with people. Leaving a church after resigning to come somewhere else without staying and learning the lessons there is a red flag to me too. I don't even think it is possible to know what those lessons might even be except with the passing of time.

I haven't seen any evidence of repentance, or even openness, about finances or leaders lifestyles. And although it hasn't been said, I wonder if this rush to hire the Laings has a lot to do with when their severance package expires. I don't want the church to make any huge decisions rashly and without everyone feeling great about the decisions, especially because of money issues.

http://forums.delphiforums.com/ICCdiscussion/messages?msg=6122.1 "Why Leaders Must Get Out"

2003-10-20T11:55:00.000-04:00

Fall of the Paris Church

They've officially shut their doors...

[ So Paris church of Christ is gone too? Sounds like ICOC is crumbling in many countries. ]

Yes. Sorry for the short, apocalyptic sentence.

It was the first thought I had when I got back from the association meeting, I had some tears also because I was hoping for that to happend since 6 months (the HK letter). It's symbolic for us and the dissolution might help christians to "turn the page" (it's a french expression, hope you understand).

Yesterday, we vote the dissolution of the Paris Church of Christ (PCC). For more details :

We used to be about 550 members but only 100 members were here to vote, most of the others were to much hurt about what happend in the PCC.
Between the 100 members, 66% vote YES, 34% vote NO for the dissolution.
But if you take in account the hundreds who left the church services, you imagine that it's not 66% but around 90% that don't want to here about the PCC anymore (but the most still want to love God).

In Paris, things happend very sadly, very bad. Since HK letter, evangelists tried to express their sorry and compassion but it did not reach the heart of the christians. There were so less expression of deep sorrows and compassion from the staff that some disciples decide to handle the direction of the church, leaded by an ex-evangelist who was fast to understand what happend, and call evangelistes to repent. But other mature brothers tried to stop him affraid of a new Kip McKean with his standard of repentance. Satan worked a lot in this mess, a lot of bad thoughts one to each other and a explosion happend. 2/3 of the christians didn't want to come anymore, disgusedt with how the things where going on. Christians were giving less and less for the contribution, we had to fire all the evangelist one by one but it looks like more a hunt than a lay off, truely saying. Finaly, the main evangelists left Paris to return to their cities where they used to live, or always wanted to live. It looks like thief going away with our contributions or asking for politicum asylum, living the PCC association with debt (hopefully the boston christians gave contribution to help us, thank you ! a letter should come from Paris to tell you). We don't know where to begin, where to go, what to think.

Randy McKean sayed he was ready to come to express his heart only if we invite him. I think it's to soon for us to see boston leader to come.
We have been so much under hierarchical dominated authority. What about Boston (who planted the PCC), did leaders had true sorrows and compassion toward the christians ? are the most christians behind them ? is the church led by elders or evangelists ?

Everybody sinned and today, no leader had been able to show the best attitude to have in this situation here in Paris.

Forgive us God. Ghooosty

http://forums.delphiforums.com/iccdiscussion/messages?msg=7332.64 "Paris Church of Christ"

News about the Dallas Leadership Conference

Better late than never! To be posted in the next day or so... Stay tuned.

2003-10-12T20:50:00.000-04:00

Confession of a Former ICOC Evangelist

This is a truly amazing testimonial by Gustavo Sassano of the Buenos Aires, Argentina church. He was a full-time ministry leader for almost 13 years (March 1989 to November 2001).

My name is Gustavo Sassano, from Buenos Aires, Argentina. I was a full-time ministry leader in the International Church of Christ (ICOC) for almost 13 years, from March 1989 to November 2001. I am sharing my story because I want to tell people about the destructive practices that I committed and false doctrines that I taught when I was a leader in the church. I want to confess my sins and educate people about the danger of the organization that I believe is a cult. This is my story.
I was converted in 1988 (recruited) when I was 23 years old in Buenos Aires, Argentina. I was studying Law in the university of Buenos Aires. A friend of mine, who was working with me, invited me to a Bible discussion. It took me seven months to get baptized. I was an idealistic person. I wanted to change the world, and I thought I had found that possibility through Jesus. I was innocent at that time. I entered in the ministry only five months after my conversion. I didn’t finish the university because at that time in the ICOC, you had to choose between the university or the ministry. I decided to enter the ministry. I was ignorant. I’m ignorant today too!!! I ate my bible every day. I dreamed a lot about conquering the world for Christ. I didn’t know that I was advancing a cult.

I was a missionary to Chile in 1990. Ten months after the missionary team arrived to Chile, the lead evangelist, Andrew Giambarba had to return to Argentina and I became the leader of the mission in Chile. I was so young and ignorant to occupy that position. I was so stupid, arrogant and prideful. I preached like I was the big thing. How wrong I was. I spent a lot of time shouting, ordering, and criticizing other religions and other christians.

I got married with Claudia in 1990 in Chile. I had to marry her in Chile. Only my mother came to my wedding. That was so bad. I received a lot of letters of my family criticizing my decision to do the wedding in Chile instead of Argentina. It was something radical to do that. It was a common ICOC thing. Being radical and stupid at the same time.

I went to Mexico in 1992 to live there. The "church" in Mexico was growing a lot. At that time if you want to grow “spiritually” (It means growing in the ICOC system) you had to be in the ICOC of Mexico. There I learned the worst teachings and techniques. The lead evangelist was Phil Lamb and after him, Peter Garcia. For example, I learned in Mexico how to make people feel bad about their lives when they didn’t follow the ICOC rules. I learned there how to put pressure into people. The purpose of every staff meeting was to make everybody or someone in particular feel bad (the staff referred to these meetings as "Breaking sessions") It was so common to hear shouting in the staff meeting, making the staff feel bad about their ministry, until some of them cried. Not a joke, that was real.

We started to talk a lot about statistics. Kip McKean, founder of the ICOC and Los Angeles church was applying those statistics and we started to do the same. Statistics about how many people every member brought. I remember very well how bad many in the staff felt about taking so many numbers. The lead evangelist measured all our lives with the statistics. That was the only way to measure a leader. It was so awful. Obviously, we couldn’t complain. Some did and they were treated so badly. We started to get angry every time the statistics were bad. I shouted at my leaders meetings, I shouted to people in my zone of the church and I did everything possible to change and to have better statistics. Everyone around me behaved in the same way. I think that at that time I lost my love for God and the people and I started to look for success in the ministry. Every staff meeting, the lead evangelist made us feel bad about something in our lives, with statistics in his hand.

I learned how to control every person's life. We called it discipleship. Now, for me, it was control. We spread the sins of many rank and file members in our leaders meetings. Nobody had a private life, nobody.

In addition to the breaking sessions, we would have more casual staff meetings. During those more relaxed meetings, the men smoked cigars, drank tequila (a lot) and we talked about the most stupid and offensive things. We always were talking about the sins of people in the church, leaders or rank and file members. Gossip was the first thing in our mouth. Those times were so common. When a goal was achieved, such as meeting a monthly baptism quota, we went to the most expensive restaurant in the city. Man, we ate like lions. We spend too much money. A person in Mexico could live for one month with the money that I spent on my dinner. I feel ashamed about it now, because we used contribution money to pay for these expensive dinners.

The pressure to get the special contribution was so heavy. I received a lot of pressure from above to collect special contribution. Because of this, I put heavy pressure on the disciples who were in my ministry to give money for special contribution. The leaders, including me, made everybody feel guilty if they didn’t come up with the money to give.

The time I spent in Mexico was the worst in terms of learning the worst of the ICOC “ministry”: pressure, guilt, a lot of statistics, shouting, ordering and so on. The worst thing was the breaking session. If a member, or leader, or staff member was not “doing well spiritually”, we met with him/her. I said we, because we were 3 to 5 against the weak member or leader. We told him/her a lot of things, shouted if necessary, humiliated him, sometimes in front of his wife/her husband, until the person was broken (meaning that they cried and agreed to do whatever the breakers thought that person should do).They did that with me several times. I did that many, many times. We learned from the example of our lead evangelist and his wife, how to break someone. We did the same every time we could. They did that to me every time they could. People cried in their breaking sessions. My wife and I cried many times.

When I returned to Argentina in 1994, I brought all the things that I learned in Mexico with me. I started to lead the ICOC in Argentina. I applied the techniques and teachings I learned to my ministry in Buenos Aires. It was a nightmare!! I think that now. At that time, I felt good about what I was doing. My “ministry” began to grow, and I felt pride. How shameful!! But after a while, people began to get tired. The ICOC schedule was killing people. Every week, we had three church meetings (bible talk, midweek and Sunday service) one discipleship time (an encounter between a member and his assigned “teacher in the faith”), plus daily evangelism and every day contact with someone, like phone calls to others members, to report our evangelism, people to bring to church on Sunday, plus a lot of studies with non-members. Our week was full of activities. Someone could hardly ever visit his family.

One time we told people to put Mondays aside to get together with their families. What a stupid command! Only one day for the family! I was living only 10 minutes from my parents and I visited them only once in a regular week. I feel so bad. My family suffered a lot. One time, while I was single, my mom got mad about my schedule in the church. A doctor had to come to our house to calm her down. It was an extreme experience. I will never forget that day. And I used that experience to tell everybody that our family will persecute us for being “Christians”. But my mother was not persecuting me. She was just so upset about the way the church schedule was hurting my relationship with my family. Today I strongly believe that the ICOC destroys family relationships. Members take a lot of distance of their parents and become very judgmental about their lives. I’m so sorry about how deeply I hurt my parents during my time in the ICOC.

With so many activities, many people began to complain. I accused them of not being committed enough. I shouted at them. I tried to kick them out of the church because they were not committed enough. We used to do that a lot. It was a common practice, to throw people out from church because they were “rebels” against the system or not “fruitful”, meaning they did not bring new people to church. I have talked with many ex-members and members about these episodes. They feel bad about those times. Imagine if you had to sit down with a leader in a room, and he started to ask you a lot of questions about your life. After that, if he found that you weren’t a good disciple, he could throw you out of church or give you some time to prove that you were a good disciple. Awful! Many people were thrown away. I hear that before I returned to Argentina, the staff threw away a lot of members.

I committed a lot of sins against God and the people in the church with my anger and pride and pressure. I am so ashamed right now. I caused a lot of damage with my bad temper. One time I shouted to my secretary and I threw away all the things she had in her hands. I fired her for stupid reasons and in a bad, bad way. I’m so sorry about that. I was known for my bad temper and pride. Once I struck a wall in the middle of staff meeting, I almost struck one person there. I saw many of these episodes of shouting, striking things in many places and situations. I did the same.

The ministry in Argentina started to decline. Many people started to leave the church. They had reasons to do that. There were a lot of complaints from the rank and file about my bad leadership. At that time I fought with everyone to protect me. I hurt many.

In March 1999 I went to Brazil with my wife and my two daughters for six months to “recover spiritually”. It was another awful experience. They were doing a lot of statistics, in some meetings up to eleven pages!! Every action was recorded. For example, we had to take note of every daily quiet time that every member had weekly. It was a nightmare. They were losing thousands of members a year and they needed to recruit a lot more to keep growing the cult. And when they achieved goals, we did the same as we did in Mexico: expensive restaurants, a lot of alcohol and “unfit-for-rank-and-file-members-jokes”.

I lost the leadership of the Buenos Aires church in 1999 because of my bad temper and bad statistics. The church in BA was not growing. John Porter, GSL in our world sector, took me out of leadership. He was mad because he had to put one of his leaders in Brazil to lead in Argentina. He said that all was my fault. He talked with me with his angry eyes and voice. In the ICOC, letting leaders go to other places to lead was not a good idea. All church leaders wanted to keep their leaders in their area of influence so as to make sure that these leaders would contribute to their growth. I decided to stay in Buenos Aires because I wanted to show everybody there that I was totally committed to repentance. It was common practice in the ICOC that when a leader was taken away, it was “better for him” and the church that he went to another church to recover. I decided to stay.

John Reus took my place in the leadership in Argentina. But he stayed only six months and then Martin and Carmen Bentley came to lead Argentina in January 2001. At first, I thought that they would be mature leadership for Argentina. But I found Martin to be the most hard and close-minded person I had ever met. I said to myself so many times that year: “I don’t want to be like him. I don’t want to have 30 years in the faith with a mind so closed.”

He was the ICOC system in person. He represented the system in a very common and harmful way: the “stealth” way. Gentle in the outside but a different person inside. He came to Argentina to represent the ICOC. To rescue Argentina from the division. In L.A, they didn't want another division in the ICOC. I found that most leaders in the ICOC were that way, one thing in the outside, but another very different thing in the inside. "Their words drip honey but their hearts are set on war". My wife told me that many times. She was tired of this behaviour in the upper leadership. My wife said "behind the smiling face is a stab you will receive as soon as you turn around".

Martin Bentley started to preach the “Only True Church” doctrine from the very first message. He preached that we were the only people saved in Argentina. He said in many sermons “when God sees Argentina, He only find his sons in this room.” Many people in the church began to leave because of this teaching. Many didn’t believe that we were the only true church anymore. They started to talk about it with other members and to denounce this false doctrine.

The staff started to mark people. They marked one ex staff member, because he didn’t believe in the One True Church doctrine anymore. After that Martin Bentley, the lead evangelist, started to mark a lot of people for the same reason. And many others, members and ex-members, seven or eight in one day, only because they began to criticize the ICOC. The criticism was always about the OTC doctrine, the contribution and the lifestyle of the staff. The other leaders started to think that I was a traitor to the ICOC cause because I began to tell the staff that we had to stop markings. One time I had an encounter with an ex-member that the staff marked. She talked with me about the ICOC being a cult. I mentioned to the staff and they didn’t like that I had that conversation with her. They considered her and many ex-members enemies.

I began to read a lot of books from other Christians and preachers with an open mind, such as Lucado, Hybels, Yancey, Palau, and many others. They opened my eyes. I learned about grace, love, tolerance. I started to believe in my heart that they were my brothers. I realized that we in the church were like the Pharisees in the Bible. We were leaders without grace, leaders with hard hearts, without love in our hearts. In spite of what I was learning, I was still following the ICOC rules. I had faith that the ICOC could change. When I talked with the leadership about the mistakes and sins of the ICOC, they always told me the same: “Things will change. Just wait.” I believed that. I wanted that. That is the main reason why I didn’t leave the ICOC before. But in my heart, I was a coward. I wanted to innovate and change, but not to lose my job. I knew that they didn't want to listen to me.

Around this time, I began to listen to a lot of the critics on the internet. I criticized them a lot. I sent horrible emails to them and to ex-members. But in my heart, my doubts started to grow. I’m so thankful to Reveal, to the ICC Discussion forum, and to many other websites, because they made me think. I didn’t want to. It was like a war between my horrible pride and the truth. I didn’t want to believe that it all was a big, big mistake. My life was a mistake. I threw away 15 years of my life in a big lie. It wasn’t easy to swallow. I know about my good intentions to seek and to serve God, but these are not excuses to make so many mistakes and sins.

I began to listen to some friends who had left the ICOC. They told me that the ICOC was a cult. I began to read a lot about it. I couldn’t believe that the ICOC was a cult, but I had so many proofs about it. I read a lot, I thought a lot. I fought with myself and with old friends. They told me the truth about the ICOC. I’m thankful to all of them for their patience and love. Some of them were patient and some of them didn’t want to talk with me anymore. I understand them now. I have hurt them a lot. I deserve their silence and distance. I was a bad, bad person.

I began to see things in the ICOC from another point of view. I was sitting there listening to other leaders preach the same every time. What boring sermons!! I started to understand why people were feeling bad about themselves. The messages were always about something that we didn’t do well or something that we need to do, like evangelism (I don’t consider it evangelism now. It is recruiting).

I started to hate statistics. We had a lot of statistics! We collected statistics regarding visitors for Sunday services, visitors for bible talks, possible visitors for Sunday service, people studying the Bible, quiet times, discipleship times, contribution, and daily evangelism sometimes. It was a lot of information to ask every member. I realized that statistics made people feel bad. WE WERE SUPPOSED TO BE A CHURCH NOT A COMPANY. But I began to think that the ICOC wasn’t a church. It was a company. One time, a friend of mine who came to my home saw the ICOC statistics and he gave me a hard speech about the wrong of statistics in the ICOC and the useless and damaging way that we had to ask and read the statistics. He told me that we were a company instead of a church. And worst than a company, because he told me that no one in a company asks for statistics in that way and never weekly statistics because no one can evaluate something in such short time. One of my friends in the ICOC who left the cult, told me the same thing. He hated the statistics and he saw the damage that we were doing to people. I didn’t listen to him. I have big regrets about that. I apologized to him for this and many things that I committed against him.

I began to hate the special contribution too. It was a lot of pressure and now I was feeling that pressure.

I began to listen to all leaders in the ICOC, in a different way, and I began to understand a lot all the false doctrines and teachings. The KNN and the DPI books made me realize that the ICOC was wrong on a lot of topics. They were writing so many lies and stupid and non-biblical things. Rules, and more rules. Always making people feel guilty. Pride and more pride about our achievements and the McKean family's achievements. The McKeans were the Super family. It was so disgusting. I couldn’t it believe anymore. One time my lead evangelist, married to Elena McKean's sister, told me about Kip: “He never listens to anybody. It is always his way only.” I knew that this guy, Kip, wasn´t who all leaders were talking about. I started to read again Revolution Through Restoration 1 and 2, and the preachings in my church, and I began to discover the truth and the mistakes.

This a list of things that I began to not believe anymore at that time and why.

• We were the only true church on Earth. I couldn’t believe this anymore. I began to doubt that we were a church and I started to think that we were a cult. This kind of teaching was so common in cults.
• We were the only people saved on Earth. No way! I started to see other Christians like my brothers in Christ. I have no right to condemn other people. I got tired to send people to hell because they were not members of the ICOC. I have many regrets in this area. Many left the ICOC thinking that they were going to hell. They suffered a lot because of that. We called them fall-aways. I’m so sorry about that. I have talked with some of them, they told me that they felt so bad at that time and it took time to recover.
• If someone is not discipled by other disciple, (hierarchical system) you were not a Christian and you were not saved. The discipleship one over one caused a lot of damage in the ICOC members. Many became people who never thought for themselves anymore. This is one my bigger regrets, because I know many that have stopped thinking for themselves. The damage in this area is bigger than most of icoc members and ex-members, including me, can measure. We told people what to do, when to do it and how to do it. We controlled every area of their lives. We asked married people when the last time they had sex was and we were asking these kind of questions all the time to married people. We decided who would marry whom and when. That was disgusting. A lot of rules in dating. People were discouraged to date who they really wanted. We, in the staff, talked a lot about who should marry whom. We arranged many dates. We would prevent a member with leadership potential to date with another member, because he/she was not good for the leadership.
• Disciple=Christian=Saved. That was a big lie. We had to baptize only people who went though all the ICOC studies. That was the conclusion Kip taught every time that I listened to him in every meeting or conference. For me it was something like Pharisee=ICOC member=Saved.
• Kingdom of God = The church. I didn’t believe that anymore. The ICOC taught this false idea to use Matthew 6:33 to push people to put first the ICOC.
• Special contribution was taught every time in every meeting. It was all about money. People in my church were tired of giving and giving 15 or 16 times their weekly contribution every year.
• If you have not baptized someone personally in the last year, then you are a bad leader or you are a lost member. I began to realize that John 15, a scripture that the ICOC used to teach that we have to be fruitful by bringing people to church, was applied in a wrong way. In John 15, Jesus was talking about the fruits of the Spirit, love, joy, patience, etc.
• Church autonomy. I did not agree with following the Los Angeles Church, the “Super Church” that all of us in the ICOC had to follow and obey. I didn’t want to obey Kip McKean or any leader outside my church. I didn’t want to follow the church in Brazil, our church above us in Argentina. That was subversive thinking in the ICOC.
• Bringing visitors every week to church meetings. We weren’t saving people. We were recruiting people. We invited them to a service. It was not common to talk about Jesus. All was about “the wonderful” ICOC. The studies tried to conform people to the ICOC not to Jesus.
• Not miss any church meeting. But we have a lot of meetings! I saw that it wasn’t right to ask to people to follow the ICOC schedule. It was made for people in the ministry, not for rank and file members with a jobs and family.
• Lifestyle of the leadership. All of us leaders were earning a lot of money and all of us were living in nice houses or apartments. We were paid Health Insurance. We ate in restaurants (expensive ones sometimes) with other people and we got reimbursement, the same with gas. We went to conferences and we stayed at the best rooms in the nicest hotels. In those conferences we went to eat every day in a different fancy restaurant. I was earning $US 3400 a month in Argentina, plus Health Insurance, about $US 300. I know that my leaders above were making $US $7000 to $10,000 a month plus many reimbursements.
• The lack of preparation in the lives of the people in the staff. The staff in the ICOC was not prepared to lead churches. I started to lead a church with two years in the faith, without any professional training and with a marriage of only two months. It was stupid to put me in the leadership. It was a nightmare to me and to the people in the church. Many churches in Latin America are being led right now by young leaders without any knowledge about the ministry. They are right now leading churches, giving sermons, without preparation. They will destroy people’s lives. The ICOC is making the same mistakes all over again. They will never learn. We, the staff, were giving a lot of advice to people in every area, but without any real knowledge. All of it was our ideas. I gave a lot of stupid advice. I discipled marriages older than mine, I gave advice about how to raise kids when I didn’t have any! I couldn’t support anymore my lack of preparation. And I looked around in the leadership and I couldn’t find anyone with real and deep preparation. WSL and GSL alike didn’t have any preparation. Their teachings were so empty. Everything in the ICOC was improvisation. We played with people’s lives. Most of the leaders know how to run the ICOC system, but they don’t know anything about REAL ministry. I listened to hundred boring sermons, empty messages.
• The control of outside information. Typical cultic practice. We couldn’t read any criticism or talk with critics. We called any criticism in the internet "spiritual pornography." I learned that this technique was so common in cults. I decided that I will read all that I found against the ICOC. When we marked people from the pulpit for being critics, we couldn’t talk with them. Many families were destroyed by this. In Buenos Aires, the Henry Kriete letter was not allowed to be read. The lead evangelist in Argentina Flavio Uribe, who is making thousands of dollars a month for leading a geographical sector (a leader from Colombia said that He is making $US 10,000 dollars a month. I hope this is not true. Or perhaps, not true anymore), said that he didn’t want to read Henry Kriete's letter. Many in the Argentina church followed him in that idea. He called a meeting for all members in the church in Buenos Aires. He wanted all members to confess their sins. He explained that the problem was not the HK letter and all the false doctrines but the sin in the member’s lives. Many decided not to go to that meeting. They said to me that they didn’t want to be manipulated again. They wanted the truth. More than a hundred have left the church since that time because they wanted to read the letter and make real changes to the church. Now there are 80 or fewer members, when Argentina had almost 300 in 1999.
• Complaints about weight. I listened to many messages and comments about our weight. Kip McKean said one time that we, the staff, were disgusting because many of us were overweight. It was very common that if someone was overweight, the staff didn’t let him to participate in leadership, or singing or serving. It was pure discrimination.

In the middle of 2001, when I started to realize all the false teachings and bad practices of the church, I began to have a lot of trouble sleeping. I was awake until 4 or 5 in the morning. I had no peace in my life and I knew that I had betrayed my best friends in the ICOC (I will explain better that later) and God, preaching that the ICOC was the only true church (OTC doctrine) and we were the only saved people on Earth, for so many years.

I didn't want to do anything in the ministry because I started to think that all was a big mistake. I was hating the staff meetings. The staff meeting was always the same. Boring, and full of ICOC techniques. I was tired of all that.

I had already lost most of my friends. They left because of the OTC doctrine and many other things, such as the pressure to give contribution and the special contribution, etc. I missed a lot my friends but, at that time, I was very hard with them. I was defending the church in front of them but in my heart I was believing the same things that they were exposing. I feel very bad about that. Sometimes I want to travel in time to change so many things. Why did I do that to my friends? Why did I hurt them? I miss the people who don't want to talk with me anymore. Sometimes I have dreams/nightmares with them. I’m so sorry. I destroyed so many lives. They have the right to not want to talk with me anymore. I deserve that.

And when I remembered my life as an evangelist, I found it horrible. I was an easily angered person, I learned how to put pressure in people's lives and I was living for statistics. It was an awful time. I hurt many. I was a big and horrible example of a cult leader. Nobody wanted to talk with me. All people were afraid to talk with me because of my bad temper. I was prideful, arrogant and not a gentle person. I was like a general, all the time giving orders. I saw the church like an army. I tried sometimes to raise a big family in the church, but I always followed the orders from above: getting more baptisms, filling the statistics forms, executing the plans from above.

I didn't leave the ministry, they fired me in November 2001. They told me that the reason was that my zone, the marrieds, was not baptizing enough people. But the real reason was that I told the lead evangelist Martin Bentley that I will never believe or preach the OTC again in my life. I told him that I prefer to sell food in the street rather than to preach the OTC again. In the past, I was a coward and I was trying to keep my job. But one day I couldn't keep my mouth closed anymore. Less than a month after that conversation I was fired.

When I got fired, Martin Bentley told me that the church would not to pay my severance if I began to criticize the ICOC. Those words shocked me. I couldn’t believe my ears. It was one of the worst things that happened to me. 15 years in the ICOC, 14 in the ministry, and they treated me like a demon. But now I understand that they did to me the same that I did to others. I was receiving the same that I gave to others. But it was a horrible experience. I deserved it.

I called the World Sector Leader, Peter Garcia. I thought that he would understand my points. But he insulted me about “losing my convictions” about the OTC doctrine. He believed that we were the only true church. He treated me very badly. Since then most members in the ICOC of Argentina began to criticize me a lot, calling me bitter and many other things. I heard that at that time, after I moved to Miami, from the pulpit the staff began to say that I was weak with sin in my life and almost losing my faith and falling away.

I was convinced that we weren't the only church and that there were a lot of Christians everywhere. I couldn’t accept anymore that singles have to marry only ICOC people. When I talked with singles I began to feel that something was very wrong. I began to suffer when I saw them - a guilty feeling. I was leaving church (cult) meetings to go to my home with my wife and daughters but the singles were leaving alone, without any hope about finding a soul mate. I couldn’t support that anymore. They were staying singles for years, 13, 15 or more years. All because of an arrogant and stupid teaching that I taught, the OTC doctrine.

The OTC doctrine was dead in my mind and in my heart. I knew that a lot of people were suffering because so many false doctrines and the lack of grace. I was the teacher of all that crap. I was a cult leader. I was like the devil, making my brothers feel guilty about their faults every time I could. I was preaching against God, because He is a merciful God. I was preaching against my brothers and sisters in other churches. Now I feel bad about that. Sometimes, when I go to a Christian Bookstore near my home, I feel bad when I look at the others Christians there. They don’t know what I was. But I know, and that makes me feel bad.

After I got fired, I began to open my heart. I told the lead evangelist too that we needed to move from our houses because they were so expensive to rent. The lead evangelist was paying more than $US 2000 and in Argentina that is a lot of money. I was paying $US 700 at that time for my apartment and that was so expensive!! We were living an easy life with money from the people.

I have to say that Jaime De Anda, elder of our World Sector helped me when I got fired. He apologized for the things that Martin Bentley did to me and my wife. (By the way the Bentley’s have never apologized to us for what they did to us). My best friend and former GSL Andrew Giambarba and his wife Mariana helped us a lot. We always will have a debt of love with them. They invited us to Miami to stay there in the middle of our pain. The South Florida Church helped us a lot, and I’m thankful with a lot of people there like the elders, our evangelist and women’s leader during our time there, Ralph and Aileen Ojeda, and many couples that gave us their hearts and their financial help. We are so thankful to all of them. I love them and miss them a lot. But it is obviously difficult to maintain the friendship because many of them are still members, and I don’t agree with how the elders and the Porter’s are running the ICOC there and how they treated Andrew because he quit. That was a shame.

I left the ICOC this year. It was a long process. The Henry Kriete letter gave me a lot of reasons to leave because it validated a lot of my doubts and concerns. I was so happy when I first read it. But I don’t agree with him staying in the ICOC. I can’t accept it. It's his decision, but I don’t agree. At that time, when HK letter was out, I had hope that things would change. How stupid I was. The ICOC upper leadership, WSL and many GSL, didn’t want to be radical. They didn’t want to make real and deep changes. They wanted to protect their jobs. They are sending their children to school and universities. They can’t stop running the ICOC. Here in Argentina every staff leader is sending their children to private schools. It costs a lot of money that they will not get in other jobs. They want to control people’s lives. I can’t believe that they are preaching, teaching and attending conferences. They must resign and stop attending the ICOC and look for different jobs. It’s hard to accept that someone like Kip McKean, ICOC founder, after all damage that he has caused, is leading a church. It shows me that they are not getting what happened with the ICOC. They can’t accept it. I talked with many leaders in many places. They just don’t get it. I know that it is difficult to realize what I was, a cult leader. It’s a hard truth. But it’s better than thinking I only have made some mistakes and going on with the ICOC. Many in the ICOC are in denial. I was there, I can understand. I believe that the ICOC leaders need to pay for their sins in the ministry with a real repentance. I don’t know any ICOC leader who has shown real and deep repentance. They don’t feel the heavy burden that they deserve to feel. Leaders in the ICOC believe that God called them to preach, but after all that I saw in the ICOC, I believe that God is calling all of them to work in a regular job!!!

The last thing that gave me the strength to leave was that I saw my best friend Andrew Giambarba fighting the upper leadership to get things right in the ICOC. But they didn’t listen to him. Instead of that, they persecuted him and criticized him a lot. It was so bad. I know him, very well, and I know the nightmare that he went through. He quit his job, and he was a Geographic Sector Leader (GSL), married and with three kids. I know that he shares my feelings about our lives in the ICOC. He feels, like me, extremely guilty about the lives that have been so hurt by this un-godly system.

I have come to the conclusion after my experiences in the ICOC that the ICOC is a cult. It’s my opinion that it is not a church but a cult. The amount of damage in so many members' lives and the number of people that have left the ICOC through the years show me that I was in a dangerous system. I have talked with many ex-members in Argentina and other places and the pain they went through is incalculable. It’s difficult to listen to so many people wounded and not to ask myself "Why did I become part of this group? Why did I hurt so many lives? Why didn’t I leave earlier?" It’s difficult to realize what I did with my life this last 15 years.

Now, I fight with my guilt every day. It's so hard to realize how many people I have hurt. I was a cult leader, which is my definition about my life in the ICOC. I was a coward, I was a bad leader. I have had many bad days when I didn’t want to get up of my bed.

Most of my good friends are outside the ICOC now. I have some in the ICOC, I love them and I’m trying to understand their decision to stay inside.

I have a job, thank God, but I don't know how to do anything else!! I was in the ministry since I was 23. I never pursued my plan to become a lawyer because I left university to enter the ministry.

At least now I feel free of all ICOC man-made chains. That is the best thing that has happened in my life. The future is uncertain, but who knows? Better things are ahead I think. I have my wife, my two daughters, and I’m close to my parents.

I have to say thanks to Nicole of the ICC discussion forum. She gave me the idea to write my story and she made the corrections to my english. Thanks Nicole!!. And I have to give thanks to Andrew for correct other mistakes in my writing and encourage me during my bad days. Thanks to all ex-members in the ICC discussion forum for your hard fight.

http://forums.delphiforums.com/ICCdiscussion/messages?msg=8928.1 "Confession of a Former ICOC Evangelist"

2003-09-17T00:58:00.000-04:00

Cult Expert Steven Hassan Chat at ICC DF, Tuesday Sept 23

On Tuesday Sept 23, from 7-9PM EST, cult counselor and mind control expert Steven Hassan will chat with us on the ICC DF chat.

If you'd like to bring some questions to the table before the chat, or have any other questions about him, you can post them at ICC DF on this thread.

2003-09-10T10:57:00.000-04:00

ANY LAWSUITS VS THE ICC?

The question came up on the ICC DF:

If you have any info about pending lawsuits, respond here (at your discretion of course).

Also, a nice medical analogy about the church's spiritual condition, posted by Dr. David Dahm of the St. Louis church.

2003-09-04T13:00:00.000-04:00

Just for Fun

There's a hilarious comic site that Mike Paglia has been producing for years. Recently, SinCamper has been added to the site with his own hilarious comic, "My Evangelist." My favorites:

There's also a crazy funny thread on ExICOC, "Snappy Answers to Stupid Questions..."

And on ICCDF: DPI Titles that never made it. Here's a compilation MARKEPA2 gave from the old arc-bc board:

Thirty Days at the Foot of the Condo
First the Kipdom
Sister Submissive
How to Build Unity Without Really Getting to Know Anyone
The Joy of Fearing your Leaders
The Co$t of Di$ciple$hip
Boy Meets Girl, Boy talks to Girl's DP, Boy Finds Another Girl
In Rememberence of the Gempel's Living Room
How to Get Happy in 3 Easy Steps
How to Use the Word 'Flat' in Everyday Conversation
9 to 5 and Spiritually Deprived
Special Contribution (Why Grown Adults Sometimes Host Bake-Sales)
Being Baptized as a Nation and Other Core Doctrines
Worst Principles
Theological Perspectives on the 'One-Armed Hug'
101 Fun Dating Ideas to Eradicate any Chance of Physical Contact
Because We Say So
Confessing Your Sins in Alphabetical Order
1,001 Ways to Eat Ramen Noodles
Unity Through Borrowing Other People's Possessions
The Effects of Sleep Deprivation on Job Performance
Filtering God's Word Through ICC Leaders
The 'Not in My Experience' Defense
Why Nobody's Else is a Christian
Fun With Attendance Stats
Money, Time & Other Things Heathens Enjoy
Heart Problems
Spiritual Pornography in the 90's
You're so Awesome, I'm so Awesome
Prepared to Proof Text
How to Live Without a Discipler- By the Ethiopian Enuch
I'm So Convicted it Changed My Life...Again!
Wag the Stats
We Know Of No Other...
The 7 Day, 14 Day or End of The Month Gratitude Journal
Restoration- a Journey Through Firery Hoops
Arbitrary Sin
Exegetical Analysis of the Ancient NIV Manuscripts.
Early Church History, Volume 1: 1979 to present.
The Art of Public Confessions and Rebuke
The Power of Guilt (Group Conformity Made Easy)
How to Alienate Everyone You Ever Meet in 30 Seconds or Less
Alive II: The tragic story of what happened to 15 brothers living in
a lower east side efficiency after the 3rd Special Contribution in two months.
The Singles Never Sleep
Men Are Evangelists, Women Are Counselors
A Tale of Two World Sectors
The Great Statsby
Better Check Your Heart of Darkness
Gone with the Special Contribution Wind
The Old Man and the ICC
Catch 22 Open People and Bring them to Church
Little House on the Prairie Rented by Members, Big House in the Suburbs owned by the ICC
Of Mice and Men who Dreamed
Kingdom Dreams
Romeo and Juliet and the Disciplers who Nixed Their Marriage Plans
Alices Adventures in the Wonderland of Getting Good Advice
The Grapes of God's Wrath Over Your Lack of Visitors
Death of a Salesman due to Ramen Malnourishment
The Art of Conditional Loving
Pride and Prejudice of Your Sector Leader
Cranking the Stats
How to Convert the Sharp, With Only a $480,000 Investment.
Crime and Punishment for Disunity
A Farewell to Arms and Anything Else you Can Sell for Contribution
The Son Also Raises Up
Lord of the Lies
A Midsummer Night's Righteous Singles' Dance Party
The Agony and the Agony
Around the World Sector in 80 Days
The Fine Art of Browbeating
The Power of Manipulation
The Master Plan of Controlling Your Disciplees
Breaking Session Chants of the Kingdom
Q & A (Questions and Avoidance)
The ICC Leader's Guide to Tax Fraud
Be Still, My Stomach - How to make it through those tough times on Ramen and other bargain foods
Popular Soul's Guide to Recruitment
The Victory of Sheepdom - How to win by following blindly
Love Your Discipler
Dating in the Kingdom - 100 ways to love each other without spening Any Time Together
The Discipler's Guide to Matchmaking - Workbook also available
The Kip I Never Knew
From Church to Cult in 3 Easy Steps
101 Ways to Make A Grown Man Cry During the Cross Study
The Cross Study- How to Spontaneously Make Someone Feel Cut to the Heart
How to Share Your Faith With Someone Who Owns A Car
Never Miss a Meeting of The Body Again - A Guide To Hobo Train Riding
Impressing a Sister's DP in 3 Easy Steps
Some Sat in the Hot Seat - Chemical Recovery Group Dynamics Manual
Making the Most of Scriptures Not Covered in First Principles
99 Reasons To Feel Good About Your Sin-List
ESCAPE - How to Convince Your DP its Not Your Sin Causing You To Question ICC Doctrine
How I Lost My Salvation Thru Masturbation
Raising Emotionally Defunct Children in Troubled Times
Love One Another...Teaching Your Child To Hug Complete Strangers!
Denial...It's not Just a River in Egypt
Missing Time...Remaining Grateful While Your Personal Life is Draining Away

2003-09-02T10:11:00.000-04:00

MASS EXODUS FROM NYCOC: How many people have left the NY Church?

There's a new poll on NYCoC discussion asking your opinion on how many people have left the New York City church so far. Well over half the respondents have replied "Over 70%" or "50% to 70%."

Check out the poll and vote if you have any opinion on the "exodus" percentage, and back it up with a reply.

Other churches

This is also rather late, but the London church also sent out a scoffing reply to Kip's letter. Some of you probably already know about it, but check it out here.

Note: I've fixed the "ICOC Blogspots" links. You have to scroll down through the pages (easiest to do a "Ctrl-F" to find keywords), but at least you can locate the right archive. This will have to do until I figure out a better system.

2003-08-20T19:15:00.000-04:00

More ICC Leader B.S.
Some former members wrote Andy Fleming (who was rumored at one point to become Kip McKean II) about the Cecil Wooten letter. Fleming responded below.
Then, WOOTEN responded ... to Fleming.

Background Info

Andy Fleming's Response

Dear Lolina and Bert,
I'm sorry that it has taken me so long to respond to your emails -- I have been
very busy with issues in the Middle East and West Region, as well as being away
for a week with my family on a camping trip. I had also been hoping that
resolution could come through your personal discussions with people in the
Central Region, but apparently those efforts are not leading you to
satisfactory results.

After listening to the discussions during the peace talks with the Fuquas, Neylands
and Wootens, I can share with you my simple understanding. The family issues
that the Wootens were facing in April 2002 led to their stepping down from the
elder position and taking a mini-Sabbatical, and then in response to
'unproductive' and 'unsatisfactory' interactions with members of the Northern
Federation D-group in the summer, that group came to a consensus that the other
'positions' within the World Sector should be retracted as well. I understand
that the termination came in the early fall and was the consensus of the NF
D-group. Since 'global' roles such as Kingdom Teacher, World Sector Leader,
Geographic Sector Leader, etc., are not explicitly biblical and were part
of an expedient, temporary structure created to help fulfill our plan for world
missions, the Wooten's disqualification in serving in those other roles was a
result of their failure in working peaceably together with other members of the team.

I did feel that all parties expressed genuine sorrow for their sins and asked
forgiveness of each other -- and forgiveness was given. Cecil told me during
those meetings that he would be satisfied with whatever decision the
peacemakers came to -- that he wasn't going to pursue these issues any further
-- because of those words I was very surprised to see his letter. I honestly do
not see the clear application of Matthew 18 to this situation since the
sin was confessed and forgiven. The ongoing issues seem much more to be in
keeping with Romans 14 where if one person believes differently than another
about a certain issue, they should be quiet and keep it between themselves and
God.

I am presently on the road and will not be back until August 13. Please
pray for me as I seek to encourage and strengthen churches in Middle
East, Scandinavia
and the former Soviet Union.

In Him,

Andy Fleming

Cecil Wooten's Response to Fleming

To: Andy Fleming, Peacemaker 07/29/2003
From: Cecil Wooten
Re: Your Letter, July 11, 2003, “ My Concerns on Central Region” sent to Lolina Porter and
Bert Rodriguez

Dear Andy,

Having read the July 11, 2003 letter, I am writing to you to correct some of the statements in your letter. Most of my corrections can be verified by reviewing the following three documents: 1) Marty Wooten letter, dated May 20, 2003, to the church; 2) Peacemaker Response letter, dated May 28, 2003; 3) My letter, dated June 6, 2003, to the church. Since you signed the Peacemaker response letter and I personally gave you a copy of my June 6 letter, I assume you have copies of all three documents. If not, they are available at:.

Your letter of July 11, 2003 included the following information:

“After listening to the discussions during the peace talks with the Fuquas, Neylands and Wootens, I can share with you my simple understanding. The family issues that the Wootens were facing in April 2002 led to their stepping down from the elder position and taking a mini-Sabbatical, and then in response to ‘unproductive’ and ‘unsatisfactory’ interactions with members of the Northern Federation D-group in the summer, that group came to a consensus that the other ‘positions’ within the World Sector should be retracted as well. I understand that the termination came in the early fall and was the consensus of the NF D-group. Since ‘global’ roles such as Kingdom Teacher, World Sector Leader, Geographic Sector Leader, etc., are not explicitly biblical and were part of an expedient, temporary structure created to help fulfill our plan for world missions. The Wooten’s disqualification in serving in those other roles was a result of their failure in working peaceably together with other members of the team.”

A
“stepping down from the elder position”

Marty Wooten never stepped “down from the elder position” for “family issues” or any other reason. The Peacemaker Response, May 28, 2003, letter, which you signed, states, “Marty Wooten ‘was resistant to step down from the position voluntarily”. In June 2002, Marty Wooten offered to step down from the eldership but his offer was not accepted (See Point 2 of my June 6, 2003 letter). Marty Wooten offered to resign in the September 6, 2002 meeting provided he was shown the biblical basis for his disqualification (See Attachment 3 to Marty Wooten’s letter May 20, 2003). Marty Wooten did not “step down” or resign, but was considered disqualified and terminated in September, 2002. Since employment by the church is not a qualification requirement to serve as an elder, termination does not automatically remove an elder from the position. Thus far, Northern Federation or the Peacemakers have not identified the specific scriptural basis for the disqualification. If an elder is caught in sin, with two or more witnesses, is he not to be rebuked publicly as a warning to others? Should the removal of an elder from the position for a scriptural infraction be done publicly with the infraction named and the accused given the opportunity to speak?

B
“in response to ‘unproductive’ and ‘unsatisfactory’ interactions”

Other than the July 2002 meeting with Mike Leatherwood, there were no discussions with the Fuquas or the Neylands over the summer. On August 31, 2002, Marty Wooten asked the Fuquas to meet with Marty and Cathy prior to the scheduled September 6, 2003 meeting. Marty Fuqua declined, saying such a

1
meeting would be pointless. The next day Marty Wooten asked Reese Neyland to meet with Cathy and him. Reese also declined, saying he considered Marty Wooten to be his enemy.

In May 2003, the Fuquas removed Marty Wooten from the GSL position with the explanation by Chris Fuqua that “We have the authority to put you in and to take you out”. Since neither John Mannel nor Tom McCurry, who were in the meeting, knew in advance that the GSL position was to be removed, the decision was obviously made on the basis of authority and not consensus. I spoke to both men about this and know this statement is true.

Prior to the September 5, 2002 Northern Federation D-group meeting (Marty and Cathy not included), Gregg Marutsky phoned Marty Wooten to advise that he intended to speak the truth in the September 6, 2002 meeting. When Marty Fuqua announced in the September 6, 2002 meeting that the D-group had already “unanimously” decided Marty Wooten was no longer qualified for the positions of elder, teacher, and GSL, Marty Wooten asked if there was anyone in the room that felt differently. Marty Fuqua answered, “I said it was unanimous”. After the meeting, Gregg commented to Marty Wooten, “I’m sorry, I’m a coward”. Later in the March 2003 meeting, Gregg apologized for his cowardice.

Before the April 2003 Peacemaker meeting, a brother in the Dallas church phoned Marty Wooten to relate a conversation the brother had with Gregg in Dallas. Gregg stated that he(Gregg) had strongly suggested that Marty Wooten could remain a teacher or could hold some other ministry position but no one else in the September 5, 2002 meeting agreed. After talking to the brother in Dallas to verify his conversation with Marty Wooten, I called Gregg and he said the brother had accurately stated Gregg’s position in the September 5 meeting. I then asked when did he become a part of the “unanimous decision?” He replied, “after receiving Marty Wooten’s divisive email dated 09/06/02 11:47PM (Attachment 3, May 20, 2003 letter). Gregg then said that he was not comfortable discussing this over the phone and would prefer to wait until the Peacemaker meetings. Since Gregg did not join in the “unanimous decision” until receipt of the 11:47 PM email, how was Marty Fuqua able to state the “unanimous decision” twelve hours earlier (Attachment 2 May 20, 2003 letter)?

In the April 18, 2003 meeting Gregg reiterated his position that Marty Wooten was still qualified to teach. In response, Tom McCurry said it was a mistake to have stated in his September 6, 2003 email that the disqualification applied to the roles of teacher and GSL. Because Tom denied that the Northern Federation D-group had, in fact, disqualified Marty Wooten from all three roles simultaneously, Marty Wooten asked Bruce Williams and Reese Neyland if he could teach in the Central Region. Both said they did not trust him to teach.

In May 2002, Marty Fuqua told Marty Wooten that he (MF) had removed him (MW) as GSL because he (MF) did not trust him (MW) and did not want him (MW) to have a place to land. Bruce Williams asked Marty Fuqua if he had any trust issues with Marty Wooten before April 2002. Marty Fuqua replied, “Yes.” Bruce then asked Marty Fuqua if he had, prior to the May 2002 meeting, ever discussed his (MF) distrust issues with Marty Wooten. Marty Fuqua said he had not discussed the distrust issues directly with Marty Wooten until after the May 15, 2002 meeting. Read the transcript of Tom McCurry and John Mannel’s November 2002 conversation with Marty and Cathy Wooten as covered by Point 1 of my June 6, 2003 letter. This taped conversation provides strong evidence that Marty Fuqua had unfounded fears and resentment toward Marty Wooten and Catherine, which led to Marty and Cathy’s termination and Catherine’s mistreatment..

The evidence clearly points to these decisions having been made by Marty Fuqua in the spring of 2002 and not by consensus reached after the summer of 2002. Al Baird informed me in the April 23, 2003 meeting that Marty Fuqua was acting within ICOC policy at the time Marty Wooten was disqualified as an elder, teacher and GSL, as the ICOC qualification requirements for these positions were the same as for an elder. I reminded Al that, after the Kriete letter, the ICOC leadership apologized for flawed and unbiblical policies and practices. Does the application of a flawed policy make the action right? John Mannel also informed me in 2002 that Marty Wooten had been disqualified per “ICOC policy”.

2
C
“failure in working peaceably together”

It appears that the Peacemakers had separate meetings with the Fuquas and the Neylands when the Wootens were not present. The Wootens, on the other hand, presented our information to the Peacemakers in writing for distribution to the Northern Federation participants or orally in the meetings when the Northern Federation D-group was present. Steve Staten, in his letters to brother Garber in Atlanta, stated that after deep and “probing” questions in discussions with the Northern Federation members, he believed their version of events and found much of our information to be “disinformation” and “corrupt”. To date, as far as I know, nothing we have presented has been proven false. We have not been presented with the Northern Federation version. Why did the Peacemakers choose to meet privately with Northern Federation? The Peacemakers were to arbitrate the discussions between the parties with both parties present.

I believe Marty Wooten’s confrontation, as an elder, to the Northern Federation “lord it over” leadership style (See pages 8,9, and 10 of May 20, 2003 letter) was the reason for his dismissal, not a “failure in working peaceably together.” I have never heard any “probing” questions or any discussions regarding Marty Wooten’s “failure to work peaceably together” in the meetings when I was present..

D
Conclusion

The information presented by the Wootens to the Peacemakers and to the church has been challenged, but has yet to be proven false or inaccurate. Marty and Cathy are in agreement with this letter. If you find the information in this letter is in error, please let me know.

I am sure you will recall that several days prior to my reading your July 11, 2003 letter, I had a phone conversation with you when you were in Canada. I asked you if you had received and read, prior to your attending the Peacemaker Meetings, all of the documentation which I had previously sent to Al Baird for distribution to all participants in the Peacemaker Meetings. You said you thought you had received the documentation and that you had hurriedly read through the material because you were asked into the meetings late in the game. The Peacemaker Response letter, Steve Staten”s letter, and your July 11, 2003 letter all make me wonder if I was in the same meetings as the Peacemakers.

I hope your visit to the Russian churches is an encouragement both to you and the churches. When you return to Los Angeles next month perhaps we could get together and talk..

Your brother in Christ,

Cecil

2003-08-12T13:38:00.000-04:00

Archive has been acting up again -- for some reason kip's letter hasn't been showing up! If you are having any other problems with this site, please let me know by posting to MINAN at NYCOC DF.

2003-08-12T12:52:00.000-04:00

No "official" Henry Kriete response yet so far. Here is an interesting point CLEARDATEMPL makes on the NYCOC DF about ICC politics:

The ICC is political in many ways.
The ICC was/is a microcosm unto itself. A full fledged FASCIST OLIGARCHY. A virtual Utopia with it's own AGENDA, PROPOGANDA & THOUGHT REFORM! The weekly brainwashings..umm.. I mean sermons consisted of repetitive messages conditioning our minds into homogeneity.

"The Kingdom, d-group, DP, follow-up, visitors, stats, bt, zones, sectors etc" Independence, the sin of rebelliousness and nonformity for the sake of unity are slogans that embody church politics & imprison members within its boundries.

I had a roomate who worked on a councilman's campaign a few years ago. Many of us here vote on a national & local level but we debate more on community issues. more proactive than reactive.

I think if Kip or the other ICC uppers were to be more politically outspoken, they would only attract more attention from the outside to their cultic teachings & unethical business practices.

Yet at the same time, ICC is also a multi-million dollar corporation and America is run by corporations. The government, like much of the ICC lower leaders are just puppets of a corporate machine. So in this sense ICC is analagously political Capitalism is its master.

I found that ICC congregations also tend to reflect their geographical makeup and the majority of the United States is still ULTRA-CONSERVATIVE & Puritanical in thought. From my travels, there are really only pockets of liberalism. Thats why many progressive & free thinkers move to big cities like NYC, LOS ANGELES, SAN FRAN, MIAMI etc. because we reflect that .

I always felt The Manhattan NYCOC was one of the most liberal from all the other ICC's in the US. and even with that said, it was still a very jacked up place to be.Though many disciples here were funky, creative artists,(brothers who had long hippie hair were encouraged to cut it off. I was rebuked once for getting a nose ring against advice.) INDIVIDUALITY was not encouraged especially if one was to be considered for leadership. Upper leadership seemed to have a Banana Republic dress code and blonde hair and /or good looks was instant qualification. If you did'nt fit that mold you were deemed "rebellious ","out there" or "not sharp".
Anyway I'm just rambling at this point.

2003-07-29T14:13:00.000-04:00

Response from Henry Kreite
Kreite responded "informally" to Kip's letter directly to the ICC DF -- he preached in Portland OR where Kip is now lead evangelist. See his post below.

Hi everyone.Grace and peace.
I just returned from Portland and had an amazing time. I went because my son was in a soccer tournament, that's all. They came in second,and it was great fun.
For the record....
The wheatfield group invited me to speak to them on Sunday and I did not hesitate. It was encouraging to me personally. The Christians were warm and joyful and eager. In my opinion, and from what they have shared,they are not a protest group but a fellowship desiring to follow Christ and not men. That simple, that free in the Lord. I spoke on the love of Christ and His centrality in all things, followed by a Q&A. We worshiped and shared in the Lord's supper.My being in Portland had nothing to do with Kip. On Saturday at the tournament, I was approached by a few of the members of the wheatfield fellowship and was invited to share Scripture the next day. I will preach and teach and worship wherever I find brothers and sisters in Christ, and wherever I am welcomed in the Lord.
I utterly agree with those of you who don't think I should be 'exalted' in anyway. Never my intention at all.This is not a Kip or Henry thing-but a truth thing. To be lifted up at all, especially for the painful contents of my letter,H2G, embarrases me beyond words. That said, I do appreciate the encouragement I recieve from those who have been helped or healed by my letter, and the myriad expressions of gratitude. Other than that,I don't aspire to any kind of role but 'Christian'. I also understand,clearly, that my letter was published after countless letters and appeals were already made from others, at great personal sacrifice and pain, over the course of many years( I have recieved a copy of several of them in the last few months)I also agree that I said nothing new in my letter. I was standing on the shoulders of others.If anything, I simply articulated the silent anguish of countless Christians over the years and gave them a platform to speak from.As for being called a hero,I've never viewed the publication of my letter as an act of courage, but more as an act of conscience . My only regret is that I did not share my convictions sooner. For that I am deeply ashamed, and sorry for the many others who were continuing to be hurt in the meantime.
Our time in London had little to do with the actual writing of my letter.Although, it was without doubt the context of my letter. What happened in London was neither the main impetus to my letter, nor was what happened in London subsequently, a result of the release of Honest To God. That is a misunderstanding that needs to be rectified. I became more urgent and intense with respect to my convictions while in London,and the unfolding crises/events we were experiencing there only strengthened my resolve to release H2G as quickly as possible.However,clearly,what was happening with the church in London was a validation of the four main points in my letter, and so served as the context and final motivation to make my letter known. London was already 'in motion'so to speak, one of the first dominoes to fall as a result of the so called 'Unity Conference' in LA in November.

I think the speed and intensity of the world wide fallout-'or crumbling wall'- proves beyond question that the ICOC as an organization/institution, from it's inception, was not built solely on the foundation of Christ and a ministry of grace and truth, but rather, was mixed with straw and wood, an inordinate exaltation and respect for men, as well as poor theology.

Did amazing things happen in the ICOC? To be sure. Are there wonderful Christians within the ICOC? I believe so, with all my heart. Of course,thousands have now left for conscience' sake while others have elected to remain and pursue change.( Marilyn and I are in anguish over this very issue at present and are not sure of our spiritual future. Pray for us)
Was the ICOC a corrupted religious group? Sadly, it cannot be denied. However,in spite of this, through the efforts of both true and false brothers,the sincere and insincere,truth mixed with error,God continued to use us(not Him)as a tool for the spread of the gospel-albeit a legalistic one.And just as easily as a woodcutter can lay aside his axe after a days work, God seems to have done so with us.Were we ever 'God's Modern Day Movement'? No.Too much arrogance and damage and sin for that claim.The statement alone almost demands a smashing by God.

Do I love Kip? Always have. Do I respect him as a spiritual leader? No longer. Do I believe that many of his teachings are false and unbiblical? Yes . Am I his 'emotional,but dear son in the faith'? Not at all- Steve May, in Ajax, Canada brought me to the Lord in March of 1977, and to him alone I 'owe' my salvation and eternal gratitude(as in Paul to Philemon-'not to mention you owe me your very self')He is my father in the faith.(Whatever Kip hoped to accomplish by that remark backfired-at least with me) Am I emotional? Yes, but I would have prefered for him to say passionate and full of conviction!Did Kip make an impact on my life and faith? Like no other.Have our churches and leaders been above reproach financially? In my opinion,most are,but clearly, several are not. (By the way,having a clean slate from outside auditors on proceedural issues-however glorious- is hardly the same as being ethically or morally righteous in the eyes of God and the church.Clean audits are imperative, to be sure,but we have routinely bragged about them to dissuade a pursuit of the more relevant issues - where the money went, how much of it went there, to whom and why. Those are the spirtual issues that demand accountability. Not opening the books in any city or in any church is utter folly and a recipe for disaster- a total betrayal of trust. What is there to hide?

In the meantime,I have been writing a brief response to Kip's letter on the issues he put forth, but I am hoping a significant amount of other teachers and elders and preachers will do the same-just as Salt Lake did.Not to divide for the sake of division,but to make a very clear stand.If not,I will be extremely disappointed. I believe there are still too many politicians and fence sitters- scary. It's not necessary or wise to get 'too' personal or , God forbid,become mud slingers. We can assume his curse for that kind of behaviour.Rather,we must speak to the relevant issues with Bible in hand-that is enough.But to ignore Kip and his RR3 , as if he has made some kind of personal or tactical blunder,in my opinion, is simply a mistake.To hide like an ostrich behind the guise of some newly embraced 'autonomy'is cowardice.To hope this will all simply go away if we ignore it, is unrealistic.

Does Kip have a real grasp of what happened in London? According to his paper-not at all. But that doesn't seem to matter -he has, sadly, again skewed the facts for his own ends. Those who live in London know what happened in London.
On a more personal note,were we asked to leave London? No.We volunteered to step down at the beginning of April.Shortly after that,however, the majority of the staff were 'forced 'to resign for financial reasons- a drop in confidence was quickly followed by a drop in contribution.I was sure that, ultimately, all of the staff (including us) would have been made redundant(laid off)eventually, pending each regions local needs and decisions by their local leadership groups .In other words-none of these staff reductions were necessarily permanent-but were dependent on the needs and desires for 'rehiring' in each local sector/ministry in the near future. After three months,ending in May, a shift was to be made from a temporary central leadership to a more local one- and each staff situation was,theoretically at least,supposed to be up for review. Some left the full time ministry for good, some were not asked to return.But almost all have left at this point in time.
We served a rather small but amazing group of Christians in North London,but we (Marilyn and I)felt the need to step aside to purify our hearts, make atonement as it were, and to humble ourselves before God.That's what happened to us. We were given 4 weeks severance, one week's UK goverment employee compensation, one month's rent and our flight expenses back to America.We paid for our own moving expenses.We are grateful for the assistance we recieved.We now live in Vancouver.

I am perplexed that Kip took such pains to get his facts correct,and from so many people over the course of so many weeks,but was still so misguided or incorrect in his assessment of things.I am perplexed, but not surprised.

In truth, my letter had no real or measurable affect on London. My letter was barely acknowledged, if at all, by the temporary central leadership group or moderators.Open forums were already in progress through out the church-starting with MT and from there to the East region .Although I did not start them, I am an advocate, but only when they are conducted in a respectful manner. I have never advocated a one way barrage of open critism against anyone, especially if they cannot defend themselves.Some 'open forums'were more productive and healthy than others.My suggested 'rules of engagement'for open forums-if a church wanted to pursue that route- are clear in my letter. Responding to sin in a sinful way grieved/s me deeply. No matter what happens, we must conduct ourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel.Convictions yes, but always in a Christlike manner.

At the same time, I am sympathetic and even empathetic with the hurts and anguish of the members and their attempts to convey their pains whether 'we' liked the way it was done or not. Shame on those who try to belittle this 'new, supposed freedom in Christ' because of some anger and venting. We have produced anything but a culture of openess and honesty in our churches-therefore,should the level of hostility have surprised anyone at all? Or the awkward and nervous attempts by many good hearted Christians to ask legitimate questions or expect some accountability from their leaders? It is hard enough to be calm, above reproach and graceful in any confrontation-how much harder when simple believers are finally confronting or challenging 'the anointed servants of God'(not my words) who have been 'over them' in the Lord?
Of course, some have sinned and some have rebelled and some were even divisive-but the kind of universal discipline we have experienced within our fellowship of churches-so swift and unrelenting- cannot be the 'work of the devil', but only of God. I utterly renounce Kip's demand that we ask the members to 'beg forgiveness'from the leaders.If you need to as an individual ,so be it.

To clarify again: In February and March,my letter was making an impact in other parts of the world- but not really in London itself. London was where I lived and wrote the paper, and of course, London served as a segue to the wider issues at hand- as evidenced by my first few pages.If you want the facts about London, ask those who served in the 'Working Group'-those elected by the churches throughout the UK to consider the issues and solutions facing the London and UK churches. An amazing group of men and women.There were about 20 elected non-staff, 12 elected staff(I was one)and four moderators.

Finally, am I bitter? Not at all. I am convicted, humbled,ashamed, hurt, disoriented,and uncertain- but not bitter.I never have been bitter, and it is beyond me why Kip would use such an expression-several times- in reference to my letter or me.I have always loved our fellowship and our many cherished relationships. I have served with my whole heart. I wrote my letter with tears and anguish of soul, that is all.

In closing, I have been asked several times about the 'errors and half truths' Kip said my letter contained. Like many of you,I am also at a loss on that point.I suppose you must ask Kip about this yourselves-and why he did not ,right then and there, set the record straight!I have countless hundreds of letters from all over the world, , from those young in the Lord to former WSL's who would beg to differ with Kip on that point. Straw arguments and manipulation are his intention, that is all. I am ashamed of his letter and deeply disappointed for those in the ICOC. I am personally embarrassed by his arrogant and relentless attacks on the churches of Christ. I am dismayed that more public response from those reputed to be pillars in the faith has not been forth coming.He drew a line in the sand.Who will cross it and who won't?Who will make their intentions known?

Anyway,forgive me if I can't answer your questions on this forum at this time. I am a ridiculously slow typist-I will still be answering the first question after the post has been closed for a few days already!

However,if you email a brief question or comment with your name, in private, I will try to answer as best I can if I have time( no promises,however)By the way, Dave Anderson's article and John Engler's soon to be released article pretty much sum up my feelings. John has said it much better than I could. Much love in Christ,Henry.

http://forums.delphiforums.com/ICCdiscussion/messages?msg=7826.93 "Henry Kriete Preaches in Portland Sun."

2003-07-23T22:24:00.000-04:00

Those Clever NY Leaders
Rumors abounded that 7/22 Manhattan Midweek was going to be Sam's "You're Either In, or You're Out" of the Cult *cough* Church. Translation: Either you give us our Money ("tithe") or not. However, it turned out to be a rather anticlimactic night, according to this report.

Main message from the leaders: We're STILL in control, but we're going to "humble out" so you will still let us get our paychecks.

Seems like more people are refusing to buy this crap. (It took this long to see it? Better late than never.) However I personally know more than a few people, who are otherwise intelligent people, who refuse to give up, want to stay and "fight" these leaders.

Wanna fight? Leave and take out another piece of their already dwindling pie. Aren't you sick of them justifying their inflated paychecks? "Get it" already!!!

To All:
I attended my last mid-week last night, and I am jubilant!! It was a very sleek presentation. A brother (Rolf S.) was brought in from another sector to make sure the singing was great. The key word was "appeal". All of the loyal gaurds were there. Jim Brown (famous for his heart to heart talks), Sam Powell (visibly swallowing his pride), Scott Davis (what does Queens have to do with Manhattan?), Robert Cario? (New Jersey?), Dale Porter (does this Sataten Island elder really believe what he's saying?), Steve Johnson (he did'nt sit with the other pharisees in their front row, place of honor), Norman Vulssshulte?(happy as a puppy now that his masters are home), and Paul Ramsey and John Bean (both visibly uncomfortable on stage, and ready to run at a moments notice of a revolt). These were the Southern gentlemen and their co-conspirators for the evening.
Sheridan began with an "appeal" to us to let them help us. He "believes" he is an evangelist. He feels pressure from people asking that he step in, and others telling him to stay away. He "feels" that God put him there to lead. He talked about the "rumors" regarding his taking over Manhattan as an evangelist and starting a secret service. He is in Jersey on Tuesday's and can only make it on Wednesdays. He feels that he should be involved with the transition groups. He is working with primetime and daytime. Elders and evangelists will be giving direction.
Dale Porter, the elder that no one knows, started out by asking "What went wrong? Where are we headed now?" He said "When men of authority are not held accountable, bad things happen. It's more dangerous when good men are not held accountable." He then rehashed the obvious, ie, elders were not leading, it was a one man show, yadda, yadda, yadda.He said that more elders will be appointed and that the congregation will hold them accountable. He suggested that although we consider discipling a bad word, "we need each other."
Sam started out by recanting some of what he said the last time he was there. The "I'm the elder for the Bronx" madness and such. His goal is to "promote unity and love". "The Bible needs to be our standard." He apologized for his offensive statements. He believes Sheridan can lead this group where it wants to go. We must do everything we do by the book. Give them a chance.........He needs to deal with his issues and his heart as in Matt 18.
John Bean had a prepared speech. He spoke about the finance group. Either he or Paul Ramsey (I've forgotten which) called them liars. Paul Ramsey (Dir. of Human Resources) said that the church office is not corrupt or negligent. He feels that all of their administrators are "men of integrity". He said that we should not believe the rumors.
Sam then gave kudos to Norman Vulssshulte saying that "He stood in the trenches, while a lot of people have left", referring to former leaders and evangelists. Sheridan then shared something from Ephesians 14, and announced that Sam Powell and Steve Kinnard would be there next Tuesday.
I could comment, but I think you get the gist of things. In a nice way, they took over. As I said at the beginning, that was my last service, and therefore, I can't say that I have much more to say about them. I will focus on putting this behind me, and helping others to heal, so you probably will not hear much from me. Thank you all for your input, and may God grant you whatever you are looking for.

http://forums.delphiforums.com/ICCdiscussion/messages?msg=7681.83 "Manhattan Rocks!"

2003-07-19T22:10:00.000-04:00

Utah says, "Just Say No" to Kip!

Here is a response to Kip's letter from the Salt Lake City Church: http://www.saltlakechurch.org/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=15 The funny or sad thing is that if you try to find the Salt Lake City Church's website on the UCD site, it redirects you to a new page off the UCD server. Here is the text:

Response to ''From Babylon to Zion: Revolution through Restoration III''
Steve & Julia Roland -- Thursday, July 17, 2003

After reading Kip McKean's essay "From Babylon to Zion: Revolution through Restoration III" (available from www.portland.ucd.net), we wish to share our thoughts with you. While we encourage each of you to feel free to form your own conclusions, we wanted to formally state our conclusions.

Many of you may not know that Kip McKean served as the leader or "Missions Evangelist" of the International Churches of Christ, up until the Fall of 2001. At that time, the men closest to him spiritually, along with many others, felt that it was essential that he step down from this role. Since then, he and his wife have decided to lead the Portland Church of Christ. Although he no longer has a role that directly oversees the church here, we felt that his prior leadership role with the International Churches of Christ, along with his persuasive sounding arguments, might lead some to question whether the content of his essay would have an influence on the church here.

After reading his letter, we would like to firmly state that we do not plan on implementing his ideas here in Salt Lake City. We are concerned that he has even written a letter, because he certainly is not seen as an authority in our eyes, yet he tries to exert authority over "all the congregations". In the letter, we feel that he has set himself up as a prophet (from his Psalm, pages 5-6, in the letter) and as God's anointed. We believe that this contradicts scripture (Hebrews 1:1-2, 1 Corinthians 13:8-12, Romans 15:14, etc.) If he is a prophet, then it is implied that we must obey his every word without question.

We are concerned with how self-focused the letter is and how out of touch he seems with the individual needs in churches around the world that he has formerly overseen. Most of the points seem designed to convince us that he should be leading again. He indirectly or directly compares himself to Elijah, Moses, Nehemiah, and the apostle Paul. He says that he does not believe in the office of an apostle today, but that basically the role should still exist for the purpose of evangelizing the world, with the title of "Missions Evangelist". To our knowledge, Kip has been the only one in our group of churches to have this title so far. Kip talks about the need for a hierarchy of authority with churches being over churches. We will not accept this here in Salt Lake because we do not believe it is right. We believe we can mutually encourage one another as church leaders and that church governance needs to come from within each congregation.

We were alarmed when he called each individual member of the ICOC to humbly beg forgiveness from his or her leaders (page 29). We emphatically do not expect this from the members of the Salt Lake Christian Church.

There are many interpretations of scripture given that are out of context or completely misused. Since Kip has been removed from leadership of the International Churches of Christ, it seems that he should have been going back to all of the congregations that have been under his responsibility and find out all the ways he has personally hurt each of them. We feel very concerned for the arrogance and pride that we saw throughout the letter on issues of discipling methods and church authority. We believe that Kip has gone beyond what is written in his interpretations of the scripture, and that it is to be accepted without question. "Do not go beyond what is written." Then you will not take pride in one man over against another. (1 Corinthians 4:6b)

The letter is very focused on numerical growth. However, we are seeing from the Bible that the purpose of the church is to take care of and mature the members, and not just to grow numerically. God will make it grow as we love one another (John 13:34-35, 1 Corinthians 3:7). We, along with our core group of leaders, do not plan to implement Kip's proposals in this church. However, we do plan to continue to stay connected to churches around the world and to encourage, mature and take care of our church here in Salt Lake. We look forward to watching God make it grow as we all make it to heaven. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact us personally at the email addresses listed below.

Love in Christ,
Steve and Julia Roland

steve@saltlakechurch.org
julia@saltlakechurch.org

http://forums.delphiforums.com/nycoc/messages?msg=147.1 "Response to Kip's Letter from Salt Lake"

2003-07-18T10:54:00.000-04:00

More Kip Lite
This time, Ian's Macrosoft Cult-Speak Checker.

I'd like to comment on one particular section - I'll run it through my Macrosoft Cult-Speak Checker just for fun....
==================================

"As for ministers’ compensation, I personally have no problem with people knowing the amount of the salaries"

[translation: "I personally have no problem with people knowing the amount of the salaries... unless they're critics, or disciples with bad hearts, or anybody who has even the slightest suspicion that we've had our snouts in the trough for decades....."]

“Do not muzzle the ox” is a Biblical principle. The amount of salary is an opinion application of that principle"

[translation: "We'll pay ourselves as much as we think we deserve, so shut up, bend over and smile"]

"Our experience has been that when the salaries are revealed many succumb to envy if the salary is more than their own even when the full-time servant has been in the ministry for 10 or 20 years more than they have been in the work force"

[translation: "Never mind the fact that most of us have never worked a day in our lives at a real job, and that we've placed a financial burden on you by endlessly harassing you for money, we deserve to live better than you do. All those challenges to live sacrificially don't apply to us, after all"]

"People in their 20s and 30s who have never bought houses have been critical of ministers in their 40s and 50s buying homes"

[translation: "People who would now be buying their first homes if they hadn't given all their money to support our luxurious lifestyles, should shut up and stop complaining"]

"We need to repent of our critical attitudes and be supportive of our full-time servants"

[translation: "Stop asking where the money is going! We'll throw it into a hole in the ground if we want!"]

"The truth is that a number of ministers have left the ministry because of the constant criticism of their lifestyle and their children - the “fishbowl effect.”"

[translation: "A number of ministers have left after their greed for money was exposed."]

"Instead of criticizing these sacrificial servants, their arms need to be held up so they do not become too weary."

[translation: "When a leader lives in a nice house in a wealthy suburb and sends his kids to expensive private schools, all at the church's expense, he's being a sacrificial servant. When you receive a tax refund or an inheritance and don't give it for SMC, you're being greedy and materialistic, so shut up!"]

"I am not saying that ministers should not be confronted and gently called to repent (Galatians 6:1)"

[translation: "Ministers should be treated gently, given the vaguest and most lenient rebukes. On the other hand, if you commit even one of the many imaginary sins the ICC has invented, you'll be humiliated in front of the church with a loud public condemnation"]

"But when we crucify our strongest leaders, we will be led into mediocrity by leaders who are afraid of the membership and we will not evangelize the world"

[translation: "Cults need harsh, greedy, ruthless leaders, so shut up and stop expecting your evangelist to listen to any of your petty grievances"]

[ PS - shut up! ]

KIP

2003-07-17T17:18:00.000-04:00

Manhattan takes a stand.
A group has found another place to worship away from the Sam Powells and Sheridan Wrights of the ICOC "Kingdom." Hey, nice diss! Hope you all do more than just change your name.

I am extremely excited to announce that we have found a worship space for
the entire region. We have found a meeting place where the entire body can
come together and worship God. The first service will be this Sunday at
4:30pm, the location is 76th Street and Central Park West. The space is
more expensive than we originally anticipated, it comes out to $1500 for
sunday, therefore we are asking anyone, who can and would like, to
contribute towards the space. On sunday please see any of the brothers from
the finance commitee, with whatever you feel like donating, please don't
feel obligated if you can't afford to offer anything. The space is
beautiful and completely insured it is being paid for by the support of
generous disciples and is separate of the church office. So we would like
to request for you to please invite your friends, any brothers and sisters
who might have stopped coming to services to church this Sunday. Let us
pray that Sunday will be a day pleasing to the Lord. Again the location is
76th Street and Central Park West this Sunday at 4:30pm.

http://forums.delphiforums.com/ICCdiscussion/messages?msg=7635.1 "Manhattan ignores Sam and Sheridan"

Kip Lite
Below is "Kip lite" -- some highlights from the letter by JUSTXD on ICC DF

We are fragmenting as a fellowship. Many disciples are in agony, caused by years of feeling unable to measure up to the “law” and judged as not “doing well spiritually.” They have been weakened by spiritual malnourishment, fulfilling Paul’s words, “the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.” Surely the hand of God is against us for not taking care of the weak.
Persecution, Satan’s attack from the outside, has rarely caused our churches long-term damage. However, grumbling and bitterness by both leaders and members have allowed the Devil to enter our sacred fellowship and begin to destroy it from within.

In the ensuing months, many of our individual congregations have likewise declared their own autonomy. The implementation of these decisions has already reaped disastrous results on the mission field. Funding for third world churches in many places has sharply decreased or is no longer available.

Many disciples are appalled to see their fellowship turning lukewarm and complacent --resembling the churches many of them came out of to become true disciples. People are watering down, and in some cases, totally abandoning basic Bible principles of discipleship due to the hurts resulting from “one sinner discipling another.” All over the world there are situations where vocal Korah-like grumblers are allowed to blast the church and God’s anointed servants.

The beauty of going anywhere in the world and finding like-minded disciples is gone.

The dream to evangelize the world in our generation has almost died.

As the leader of the churches until my sabbatical in October 2001, I take full responsibility for the decisions that were made by the World Sector Leader Group while I was leading as well as the consequences of my sins of leadership.

At the end of the year 2000, a great Jubilee was held in Los Angeles to celebrate the completion of the “Six Year Plan” as outlined in the Evangelization Proclamation. At that time God had planted disciples in 171 nations!

Because I was no longer in a position of authority, people felt much freer to share their criticisms.

The phone had stopped ringing. For the first time I began to realize that many of my relationships existed only because of my role.

My sins are clear and grievous. I have been arrogant, almost always thinking I was right. I did not listen. I did not actively seek discipling for me and my family. I was only partially open and deceit came into my life. This led to the sin of anger towards those who disagreed with me. Too often, I viewed these individuals as critical. I did not draw people out. I built an atmosphere in which people were afraid to speak up. There were times when I corrected people that I was mean, cruel and I even humiliated them.

Too often I would value talent and charisma over heart and spirituality. I lacked respect for people with different talents than mine. I also was too slow in allowing the relationships with my young “Timothys” to grow up from parent/child relationships into adult/adult mutual discipling relationships. Another sin was that I failed to resolve conflict. I miserably failed to reconcile brothers and sisters, particularly from the World Sector Leader group, who were in sharp disagreement with each other and with me. I believe that this, in time, led to unresolved issues in the relationships between world sectors and individual congregational leaderships.

Ultimately, my most devastating sin was claiming God’s victory as mine. In pride, I boasted in “my” accomplishments. I allowed people to give me glory; I did not refocus them to God.

Moved by the grace of God, my heart’s desire is to once more teach fellow transgressors to turn back to God.

I questioned whether God would use me again.

For those not familiar with our history, let me retell what God has done.

As with the Jews of the first century church, this influx of mature, seasoned disciples provided a constant fountain of leadership that helped propel God’s movement to all the Gentiles around the world.

In 1979 in Boston, Massachusetts, God gathered 30 would-be disciples in the Gempels’ living room. The Spirit put on our hearts three common convictions that in time would produce a group of true Christians dedicated to evangelizing the world by restoring the lost principles and practices of God’s people:

Unprecedented in the mainline churches, from 1983 on there were more than daily baptisms in the Boston Church that evidenced the grace of God. God was with us.

Continuing to study the Scriptures, the next conviction that easily followed was: the true church Jesus died for is composed of only true Christians, disciples.

In 1981, the Holy Spirit put on our hearts a plan to evangelize the world.

Though our critics multiplied, our Father in heaven multiplied the disciples even faster.

(It must be stated here I have always believed there were Christians –“baptized disciples”-- outside of our fellowship.)

I was determined to unify these disciples into a single brotherhood by calling them to leave the dying churches they were affiliated with and come into one of the Boston ministry churches.

HOPE worldwide, because it was centered in good works, shielded God’s evangelists and churches from persecution in several countries including even the United States.

By 1994, when the Evangelization Proclamation was written, God’s movement encompassed 140 churches in 53 nations.

Though there have been a few scattered divorces, mostly because of the sin of adultery, if you are married in our fellowship of churches and remain as faithful disciples, your marriage is almost assured of fulfilling the vow “until death do us part.”

Also true Christians wrote over 140 book titles published by Discipleship Publications International (DPI) and translated into numerous languages.

There was also a growing distance and distrust between the full-time ministry people and those with secular jobs. These were the seeds Satan planted that would begin to destroy what God had obviously built.

As God’s family, we have seen the miracles of God and rightly assumed God is with us. The real issue is not, “Is God on our side?” but rather, “Are we on God’s side?” We became enamored with “God is on our side” and lost the focus of seeking to remain on God’s side.

At this current hour in God’s kingdom, false teachers masquerading as angels of light are preying upon misguided, bitter disciples. With half-truths, these teachers have not only undermined the integrity and thus the authority of leadership, particularly evangelists, but also have introduced disruptive false doctrines that have been embraced by insecure congregational leaderships.

1) Every person is saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. (Ephesians 2:8,9) To accept this grace and become a true Christian, each person must believe in Jesus as the resurrected Son of God, repent of his or her sins, make the decision to be a disciple and then be baptized in water for the forgiveness of sins to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. We have chosen to most often refer to Christians as disciples since the terms “Christian” and “believer” have become so undefined.

2) God adds the baptized disciple to his church universal. (Acts 2:41) The church universal is all of the disciples in the world that God sees when he looks down from heaven into people’s hearts, whether they are in the ICOC, mainline Church of Christ, the Christian Church, in breakaway small groups or a single disciple in a denominational church. However, we have tried to use God’s standards in building the visible church, in which each congregation should be composed of only baptized disciples.

Remember the poor. Through our personal sacrifice, local congregations and through HOPE worldwide, like Paul, we have been eager to remember the poor.

What once was a joyous sacrifice for missions became a burdensome missions contribution multiple given under compulsion. What once was the spirit of a disciple to go anywhere, do anything, give up everything, in time became the same behavior without the heart. What once was charitable Christian advice and direction became authoritarian dictates which sometimes violated the consciences of the recipients, thus causing resentment and anger.

Many have concluded the reason for all of this sin, disorder and bitterness was “the system” – World Sector Leaders, discipleship partners, Bible Talks, megachurches, the “Study Series,” etc. (Some have even gone so far as to call it the “evil” system.) A system is simply applying Biblical principles to create methods.

The question must be asked, “Are we the movement of God, or at least a movement of God, or have we become simply a fellowship of saved disciples?”

As for me, two years ago when one of my children fell away,
Many of the Kingdom Teachers and World Sector Elders came to the specific opinion that each World Sector Leader would be disqualified from his role if one of his children was not a faithful disciple. Therefore, I needed to step down from the role of leading the movement.

Also, the Gempels and Bairds felt that over the next few months the bitterness would dissipate if the bitter World Sector Leaders would just speak freely without Elena and me saying anything in response to free them from their attitudes.

The combination of independently run World Sectors, the lack of opportunity for the confronted leader to respond, and an underlying bitterness produced by sins within the World Sector Leaders’ leadership proved to have catastrophic consequences.

However, with no higher authority ready to reinforce the credibility and authority of each of the World Sector Leaders, their influence in their groups began to crumble.

Thinking that stepping down would help unite the leaders and eliminate criticism and bitterness, Elena and I chose to step down the first night of the Unity Meeting in LA in November, 2002.

It is my personal conviction that some among our number who wanted to reshape the governance and doctrine of the movement were more influenced by their backgrounds in the mainline church than they were aware.

Since there was so much distrust revealed at the LA Unity Meeting, it was not surprising that when some of the Geographic Sector Leaders returned to their home congregations, they found the same mistrust, anger and hurt in their own staffs and memberships as well. In retrospect, it is easily understood that they simply reaped from their own people what they, in many cases unconsciously, had sown: the attitude of mistrust of those who led and discipled them. (Matthew 7:1-5)

I have learned that autonomy is defined differently by brothers that I deeply respect. I shall define an autonomous congregation as one that is totally void of any influence, direction and authority from any other church or individual. (This is the practice of the mainline Churches of Christ.) Therefore, autonomy is inherently disunity, the antithesis of brotherhood.

Though no one would dare breathe these words, the desire for autonomy in some is the desire to have their own kingdom. This is where the mainline Church of Christ preachers, though I believe many were good-hearted, went astray.

Because there were no other evangelists or elders overseeing their work, with no one in their lives, many gave in to the temptation to compromise their zeal, compromise the Word of God and/or compromise their purity. Romans 13 teaches that all authority (someone over you) is from God, and is meant to protect, not harm.

It was in this atmosphere that Henry Kreite wrote his letter, Honest to God. With the central leadership of the kingdom now being nonexistent, there was no “church leadership” to answer. Since the letter contained many elements of truth mixed with misinformation and bitterness, there was an outcry in many parts of our fellowship for a need to change “the system” and many of the ways we do things.

Henry advocated “a time for anger and the overthrowing of temples. I believe that time is now.” He urged churches to have “open forums” which further poisoned the membership towards the leaders as a little yeast works through the whole batch of dough. In my opinion, a license to sin was handed to bitter disciples who, under the guise of “freedom in Christ,” often spoke publicly with malice and slander towards the ministry leaders and those who led them.

With no central leadership, and the fear that to respond was to be defensive, the leaders, particularly the evangelists, became weary, lost heart and many left the full-time ministry.

With the questioning of the “one-over-one” discipling and the elimination of the lead evangelist’s role in larger congregations came the erosion of the Biblical role of an evangelist being “over in the Lord” the churches in his geographic charge, even when those congregations had elders. This paradigm shift caused the evangelists who worked in these fields to lose their personal dreams to do great things because they were now limited to a smaller group in a single city.

Another mitigating factor in the erosion of this role came from Henry Kriete’s questioning of the way that money was spent, i.e. the lifestyles and the salaries of the evangelists. He also charged that there was deceit surrounding our missions contributions and the way the funds were spent. This charge was in spite of the fact that our administrators have diligently practiced the highest ethical standards of accounting and all of our large churches are audited annually by the most reputable accounting firms.

Up to this point, as a brotherhood, we believed that evangelists overseeing several congregations had the “right” to expect some pay from these congregations.

Alarmingly, our weekly and missions contributions have plunged, not because of the sagging economy, but primarily because of people’s loss of confidence in church leadership.

Autonomy breeds not only selfishness in finances, but a breakdown in advancing the kingdom. This is to our shame.

“What happened to the church where Henry served?” since his letter called the London Church to be “the epicenter of a ‘new movement’ of God?” The evangelist who was leading the London Church is American and his wife is French. Because they lost the confidence of a section of the London staff through their leadership sins, and because they were not British nationals, elected moderators asked them to resign without even consulting the church. Because the new church leaders adopted autonomy, there was no outside authority to back the foreign evangelist and to challenge the people to give the couple a chance to repent.

Pat Gempel, my mother in the faith, falsely accused of nepotism because at one time her three children and their spouses were all in the ministry.

When Nehemiah heard about the burned gates and the broken-down walls of his beloved Jerusalem, he wept. He prayed. He determined that he personally would return to Zion to help restore the wall.

In the midst of all the chaos in our fellowship, with unparalleled disunity between Christians, with so few people being saved, with so many leaving our brotherhood and with all the discussions about church governance, we need to stop and simply remember how great our God is and that there is nothing that is impossible for him.

I must confess right here that when I saw the extent of the crumbling wall, when I felt pain because of my sins and those who sinned against me, I and others began to very seriously wonder if we needed to once again start a new movement that could evangelize the world.

Since bitterness was unconsciously discipled through the levels of leadership, leaders must consciously exemplify and teach, and thus disciple, mercy and forgiveness into their relationships with each other and their flock. God must be grieving that many evangelists and elders still have bad attitudes toward those who were or are “over them in the Lord.” (I Thessalonians 5:12) For forgiveness to be a yeast that leavens the whole batch, it must begin with the leadership. Then God’s mercy working through us will heal our wounds and restore those cherished relationships.

Essential to this healing, and to my knowledge not boldly addressed, is the need for the membership to humbly beg for forgiveness from the leadership –for their bitterness, gossip, dissension, envy, disrespect and insensitivity to the devastating impact their rebellious spirits have had on the leaders and their families.

Sadly, several of our ministers have been so devastated that they have decided to leave the ministry because their repentance was not responded to with forgiveness.

According to the Scriptures, to grumble and be bitter toward leadership is to grumble against God.

Discipling is how you got saved! It is why there are churches of thousands that did not even exist just a few years ago. To stop discipling people within our congregations will mean that the untold thousands in our cities will die untold. Discipling is not only for the salvation of the lost, but I believe it is the salvation of the saved.

Discipling gave warmth to our fellowship and distinctiveness to our brotherhood.

We must not abandon discipling. We must reaffirm it because it is one of the key ways God changes us through the Spirit and the Word.

We believe that we should “be silent where the Bible speaks and speak where the Bible is silent.”

I have learned over the past few years that I was very wrong to discourage people with mental health challenges to seek professional advice and, when prescribed, to feel good about using medicinal treatments. God certainly works through doctors and professional counselors.

In terms of specific prohibitions, the reason the mainline church believes only in a capella singing (no instruments) is that in the New Testament, in the book of Acts and the letters, there is no mention of instruments in worship. Therefore, since they believe in a strict “be silent where the Bible is silent,” they believe it is sinful to use instruments in the worship.

The mainline church called themselves a brotherhood, but in fact there were multitudes of congregations in one city who did not fellowship each other.

A catchy phrase developed in the Churches of Christ segment of the Restoration movement was: “Bible things by Bible names.” It sounds so right. And yet, it leads to a narrowness of thinking as well as boundaries to our God-given creativity. (Remember, the word “Bible” is not in the Bible; the word “Scripture” is. So should we not call the Bible, “The Bible?”)

. However, if we are to once more become an advancing, growing movement of God, then our leaders must be men of great faith. After a period of time, if a congregation is not growing, then I believe the leadership needs to repent of their lack of faith and intensify their learning from other congregations. If their church still does not grow, then the evangelist (the man who leads the evangelistic charge) needs to step down and seek further training from another evangelist. The elders need to pray that God will send them an evangelist they can follow (and shepherd) as they build the church as a team.

We must never forget that our perfect God has chosen to work through imperfect men to fulfill his mission. This glorifies our God all the more. Central leadership, godly men surrounding God’s chosen leader, was present in each of the Old Testament movements,

I would encourage us all to pray that God will make it financially possible to return to the ministry all the people who left but feel called to serve again.

(Let me say right here that I do not believe the office of apostle and the corresponding miraculous gifts are present today.)

Also, only evangelists appointed elders as well as other evangelists. We do not see an example in the Scriptures of one eldership giving direction to another eldership. (In time, many of our evangelists will become elders. Only in this way should an elder give direction to another church, but it is by virtue of being an evangelist, not an elder.)

I would like to suggest that our new central leadership be called “The Council of the Brotherhood” -- comprised of missions evangelists (those that have geographic charge over numerous churches) as well as selected elders.

We feel obligated to God not to receive an undue amount of salary, but simply enough to provide for our families.

The results were that our top leaders were paid less than the top leaders of the denominations and the lower level leaders were paid more than in the denominations. The average income for our ministers is generally in line with the average income for denominational ministers.

If being in the full-time ministry is not the call for those of our number with the most God-given gifts/talents of leadership, then our ministers will be like the ministers of so many denominations who are either average or socially inept, have good hearts, but cannot lead people.

Also many married women have treasured the opportunity to work side by side in the Lord’s vineyard with their husbands.

The Lord has blessed us with the most baptisms this semester from the campus that there have been in several years.

We have firmly decided that we simply in good conscience cannot spend the rest of our lives in tears in Babylon. If we as leaders and members do not radically repent, then I believe God will look to start again.

6. Giving: We need to radically repent in our weekly giving. Though I do not think a tithe is commanded in the New Testament, this is perhaps a good target for each of us as Christians.

http://forums.delphiforums.com/ICCdiscussion/messages?msg=7562.1 "Kip Letter - Highlights?"

2003-07-16T14:24:00.000-04:00

And along with the new Kip letter... some more NYC / Powell drama. Mid-Manhattan midweek service on July 22 should be verrrry interesting. If you're in the city, check it out (especially if you find the need to scream & yell).

Personally, I think these people who still believe the church can "change" for some reason should go watch Gandhi. Grow a backbone ... don't acknowledge their authority anymore! That is far more effective than "pleading for SP's resignation."

A CALL TO ARMS
On Tuesday July 22nd,at the Manhattan midweek service, Sam and the other elders and evangelists will finalize the splitting of Manhattan that was started by Sheridan Wright. He will discredit and disband the transition teams and the congregation will be forced to choose 'in or out'. We want to keep our region together and continue fighting for repentance in our church. We are pleading for all of the Christians in the NY area to come and help us fight the tyranny and together call, plead, scream for Sam Powell's resignation. The location of the midweek service is 96th Street and Central Park West and the service will be Tuesday July 22nd at 7pm.

'Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace-- but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!' Patrick Henry, March 23, 1775

http://forums.delphiforums.com/ICCdiscussion/messages?msg=7551.1 "SAM POWELL SPLITS MANHATTAN"